BMW: E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy : BMW 5 series Forum • BMWLand

  BMW Forum: Car help, questions, answers, BMW discussion forum  
BMW Forum for UK BMW Car owners : Where Power Meets Control

BMW Forum: BMWLand Forum Portal Entrance BMW Forum: BMWLand - Forums for UK BMW Owners BMW Discounts & Support for BMWLand members BMW Forum Twitter, RSS, Facebook for BMWLand members BMW Car Insurance Discount BMWLand: Contact Us BMW Paint Repair discounts for BMWLand members BMW Oil Discount for BMW Engines BMW Car Tyre Discounts for BMWLand Members BMW Car Parts: Genuine BMW Parts Discount for BMWLand Members BMW ECU mapping BMW Swirl Flaps

www.BMWLand.co.uk ©2014                           Contact [email protected]

Peake BMW Diagnostics  
BMW Car Insurance Discount
  
  

E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

BMW forum 5 series car: E12, E28, E34, E39, E60, E61, F07, F10, F11

Moderator: Moderators

E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

Postby gappysmeg » Wed, 03 Jul 2013 20:07:49 UTC

It was a slow day at work today, coupled with it being my birthday and everyone eating cake, half the office joined in on my car search. An intense debate broke out about the stated fuel economy figures for my old car (E39 528i manual) and the car my missus wants me to buy (E60 530i auto, the 255bhp version)

So, from various sources, the combined fuel economy figures are:-
E39 528i manual: 28.8 mpg
E60 530i auto: 30.4 mpg

So, can the advances in engine technology really mean that a 7 year old 3 litre 255bhp engine with an automatic gearbox is marginally more economical than 13 year old 2.8 litre 197bhp engine with a manual gearbox?!?!
Or, are the figures uncomparable?!?!

I think I'm with the latter, but most of the office are with the former. What's your thoughts? :?:
2007 525i M-Sport Auto in SpaceGrey, with Adaptive Xenons, Pro Nav, Bluetooth Prep, Voice Control, and full leather.
gappysmeg
Advanced

Posts: 856
Images: 0
Joined: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 15:47:26 UTC
BMW Members Cars: 2007 525i M-Sport Auto
Location: West Country
United Kingdom (uk)

Re: E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

Postby Peter » Wed, 03 Jul 2013 20:21:27 UTC

There are a lot of factors in this one. Official figures won't tell the whole story. I would start from the fact that the newer the design of the car, the more the official figures are being influenced by subtle manipulation.

For an example, my 1998 E39 540i V8 (4.4-litre) would exceed the official combined figure by at least 25% in real world driving. Drive my current 2011 F11 535i 3.0-litre in a similar way and the mpg is below the official combined figure. Official figures look like there should be about a 12.5mpg improvement, but in reality it has only improved by around 5 - 7mpg.

Also remember the E39 528i was a very frugal motor, and coupled to the manual box was a gem in its time.

A better guide for mpg is user reference and real world experience. I'll look up a few magazines and links and see what I find.

Peter
Car: BMW F11 535i M-Sport Auto Touring
Peter
BMW Warlord
Site Supporter

User avatar

Posts: 16831
Images: 0
Joined: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 08:26:55 UTC
Location: Highland

Re: E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

Postby gappysmeg » Wed, 03 Jul 2013 20:36:40 UTC

That was my supposition... that when they determined the economy figure for the 528i (probably back in 1999) they didn't put too much effort in, as it wasn't a key selling point.

By the time the 530i came about (2005?), economy was far more important, and therefore a lot more effort (read "trickery") went in to determining the figure.

The conversation sort of started because I said my old car got 30mpg on my commute, pretty much consistently (maybe 29 in depths of winter, 31 in heights of summer) and that if the 530i can match that I would be a happy and VERY surprised man!
2007 525i M-Sport Auto in SpaceGrey, with Adaptive Xenons, Pro Nav, Bluetooth Prep, Voice Control, and full leather.
gappysmeg
Advanced

Posts: 856
Images: 0
Joined: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 15:47:26 UTC
BMW Members Cars: 2007 525i M-Sport Auto
Location: West Country
United Kingdom (uk)

Re: E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

Postby Peter » Thu, 04 Jul 2013 07:55:40 UTC

MPG shortfall has certainly increased over the last few years. From being recognised as something like 11% about 10 years ago, today not uncommon to see figures in excess of 20% on the official figures.

Autos have certainly improved in their efficiency, the 6-speed in the E60 did close the gap over a manual, but whether enough to match your E39 I'm not convinced.

The old official regime indicated the E39 528i manual would return 36.2mpg @ 75mph, that was quite impressive for what the car was in its time. As Autocar commented at the time of launch back in 1996, when they returned 26.8mpg overall in road testing and 34.2mpg on their economy route, "you don't expect a one and a half tonne executive/luxury car to consume less fuel than most cooking 2.0-litre four-cylinder saloons."

Peter
Car: BMW F11 535i M-Sport Auto Touring
Peter
BMW Warlord
Site Supporter

User avatar

Posts: 16831
Images: 0
Joined: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 08:26:55 UTC
Location: Highland

Re: E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

Postby kleynie » Thu, 04 Jul 2013 08:08:31 UTC

I have the same comparison with different engines. My old E39 525i would do 19mpg at best on my mostly school run journeys. By comparison my current E61 525i (3 litre) does 24mpg on exactly the same journeys. Both auto in this case though.
I can't see an E60 530i auto doing 30mpg at all.
2012 F07 M Sport, carbon black/black leather and anthacite ash trim, all the usual plus HUD, internet, apps interface, staggered 20" style 303M
kleynie
BMW Warlord
Site Supporter

User avatar

Posts: 4622
Joined: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 11:39:32 UTC
BMW Members Cars: present 530d GT, gone 525i LCI E61 M Sport,
E39 525d, 530d, 525i & 523i
Best car E36 328i sport touring
Worst car E46 320d SE touring
England (EN)

Re: E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

Postby gappysmeg » Thu, 04 Jul 2013 08:32:55 UTC

One thing I forgot, is "fuelly.com"... I used this to track the ACTUAL economy of my 528i... just logged back in, and it says my average MPG over the whole time I owned that car is......... 26.7mpg.

It also allows you to search for cars, and see average MPG over the whole sample of a particular type of car... stupidly, it doesnt allow you to filter by gearbox, but you can start to build a rough picture of real-world MPG... let me share some figures with you.
2000 528i - 26.1mpg (as most of the cars are USA-based, we can probably assume this is almost entirely Autos)
2001/2 M5 - 20.5mpg (I averaged the figures for 2001 and 2002)
2006 530i - 29.5mpg (all autos)

Obviously the old adage that 90% of statistics can be made to tell 50% lies and 30% are completely made up, probably applies!
(i.e. are the 528's mostly retired now, just doing supermarket runs, whilst the 530's are still pounding the motorways)

Interesting resource though, nonetheless!
2007 525i M-Sport Auto in SpaceGrey, with Adaptive Xenons, Pro Nav, Bluetooth Prep, Voice Control, and full leather.
gappysmeg
Advanced

Posts: 856
Images: 0
Joined: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 15:47:26 UTC
BMW Members Cars: 2007 525i M-Sport Auto
Location: West Country
United Kingdom (uk)

Re: E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

Postby spuffington » Thu, 04 Jul 2013 08:46:49 UTC

I'll bang my same old drum on this one......

My experience of the E46, E70 & E60 is that each of them (in my stewardship) has consistenly performed without fail at 80% of the stated combined cycle. By that reckoning, the E60 530i should achieve around 24mpg, which isn't so different from some of the anecdotal evidence on here from 530i owners who are somewhat miffed that I'm getting 22mpg from a 4.8 litre unit.
2010 E70 xDrive40d LCi SE (Dynamic) - family duties

2002 Mercedes 316 CDI Rimor Superbrig 728 - 7 berth motorhome; family holidays!
spuffington
BMW Warlord
Site Supporter

Posts: 4224
Joined: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:15:33 UTC
BMW Members Cars: Previously, since 2008....
2008 E60 550i M Sport
2007 E60 535d M Sport
2006 E46 330Ci vert
2007 E70 xDrive30d SE (Dynamic)
2005 E46 330Ci coupe
Location: Frankfurt am Main
Germany (de)

Re: E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

Postby mega-e39-fan » Thu, 04 Jul 2013 09:30:35 UTC

And the moral of the story is.... buy a V8 if you can cos' life's too short [:D]

Just to throw another viewpoint in there, my 530iA is currently doing around 21mpg average with mostly inner city driving. Although fuel efficiency has improved since the E39 was in production, especially with motors like the F10 (An M5 doing 28+mpg???) I agree with those above in that the E60 530i just won't do the claimed 30mpg in 'real-world' driving.
mega-e39-fan

User avatar

Posts: 1292
Joined: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 14:34:53 UTC
BMW Members Cars: Facelift E39 530i Sport
Location: West Yorkshire
United Kingdom (uk)

Re: E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

Postby spuffington » Thu, 04 Jul 2013 10:06:39 UTC

mega-e39-fan wrote:And the moral of the story is.... buy a V8 if you can cos' life's too short [:D]


[:D]

I will confess, however, that if I were to drive mine in an urban environment for 90% of the time, it would be sitting at around 16mpg.

But in a more 'average' usage pattern, there is little to separate the 3.0i and 4.8i in terms of fuel economy in the bigger applications (like E70 & E60).
2010 E70 xDrive40d LCi SE (Dynamic) - family duties

2002 Mercedes 316 CDI Rimor Superbrig 728 - 7 berth motorhome; family holidays!
spuffington
BMW Warlord
Site Supporter

Posts: 4224
Joined: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:15:33 UTC
BMW Members Cars: Previously, since 2008....
2008 E60 550i M Sport
2007 E60 535d M Sport
2006 E46 330Ci vert
2007 E70 xDrive30d SE (Dynamic)
2005 E46 330Ci coupe
Location: Frankfurt am Main
Germany (de)

Re: E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

Postby gappysmeg » Thu, 04 Jul 2013 10:23:40 UTC

mega-e39-fan wrote:And the moral of the story is.... buy a V8 if you can cos' life's too short [:D]


Yep, I'm leaning towards your persuasion [:D]

Given up on the Alpina thing, as from what I've seen the good enthusiast-owned cars are only put up for sale once they're on their last legs.

Can''t find a nice E60 manual, so if I stay E60 it will most likely need to be 530i Auto to ensure it has a good spec. Well, as that will probably do 25mpg, I may as well get an E39 M5 and put up with 20mpg.

Flawless logic :lol:
2007 525i M-Sport Auto in SpaceGrey, with Adaptive Xenons, Pro Nav, Bluetooth Prep, Voice Control, and full leather.
gappysmeg
Advanced

Posts: 856
Images: 0
Joined: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 15:47:26 UTC
BMW Members Cars: 2007 525i M-Sport Auto
Location: West Country
United Kingdom (uk)

Re: E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

Postby spuffington » Thu, 04 Jul 2013 10:30:19 UTC

Man maths at its best! ;)
2010 E70 xDrive40d LCi SE (Dynamic) - family duties

2002 Mercedes 316 CDI Rimor Superbrig 728 - 7 berth motorhome; family holidays!
spuffington
BMW Warlord
Site Supporter

Posts: 4224
Joined: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:15:33 UTC
BMW Members Cars: Previously, since 2008....
2008 E60 550i M Sport
2007 E60 535d M Sport
2006 E46 330Ci vert
2007 E70 xDrive30d SE (Dynamic)
2005 E46 330Ci coupe
Location: Frankfurt am Main
Germany (de)

Re: E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

Postby Peter » Thu, 04 Jul 2013 13:33:19 UTC

spuffington wrote:Man maths at its best! ;)


And don't ever put the facts on a spread sheet. It is too frightening for most to contemplate. :shock:

BTW, even though my car won't reach the official combined figure in real world driving, I am currently showing 31.2mpg for 280 miles of mixed driving since the garage killed my previous OBC readings. So just under 31mpg indicated from brim to brim accuracy.

The 280 mile mix is a 90 mile run back from the garage, loads of 12 (ish) mile trips, driving around town and lots of switch offs and about 20 miles driving in hilly terrain which knocked the figure back by about 2mpg. No at all bad for a bloated and heavy weight F11 535i, which has power sapping extra weight, like the panoramic roof and the extra load of the Adaptive Drive hydraulic pump, etc.

The long term average for over 5k miles was 29.7mpg OBC, over 29mpg real figure. That was mixed driving, only about 1k miles on the motorway, through the winter months, school runs, plus a couple of months of many 1 mile trips, :oops: mostly with cold starts while working on my son's house. Without the extra short runs (which I hate using the car for, but can't always use my bicycle) I'd be over 30mpg long term.

Best run mpg was recorded going down to the garage in Perth, OBC was reading 37.3mpg after 90 miles.

Peter
Car: BMW F11 535i M-Sport Auto Touring
Peter
BMW Warlord
Site Supporter

User avatar

Posts: 16831
Images: 0
Joined: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 08:26:55 UTC
Location: Highland

Re: E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

Postby gappysmeg » Thu, 04 Jul 2013 14:39:10 UTC

Peter wrote:And don't ever put the facts on a spread sheet. It is too frightening for most to contemplate. :shock:


Too late :shock: ...... I analyse most things in spreadsheets, bit of a control freak like that.

Working on having freed up a grand, so my next car can cost my 525d + 1000 max.
So, using some fab man-maths, if I can swap my 525d for an M5, I have a grand with which to absorb the extra fuel consumption... once the grand is gone, gotta sell the car.
However, even using my feeble 5000 annual mileage, I would have to sell the M5 within 18 months!
2007 525i M-Sport Auto in SpaceGrey, with Adaptive Xenons, Pro Nav, Bluetooth Prep, Voice Control, and full leather.
gappysmeg
Advanced

Posts: 856
Images: 0
Joined: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 15:47:26 UTC
BMW Members Cars: 2007 525i M-Sport Auto
Location: West Country
United Kingdom (uk)

Re: E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

Postby spuffington » Thu, 04 Jul 2013 23:42:09 UTC

Presumably that's just £1k extra for fuel?

But running costs for an M5 will be significantly higher than 528i + £1k
2010 E70 xDrive40d LCi SE (Dynamic) - family duties

2002 Mercedes 316 CDI Rimor Superbrig 728 - 7 berth motorhome; family holidays!
spuffington
BMW Warlord
Site Supporter

Posts: 4224
Joined: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:15:33 UTC
BMW Members Cars: Previously, since 2008....
2008 E60 550i M Sport
2007 E60 535d M Sport
2006 E46 330Ci vert
2007 E70 xDrive30d SE (Dynamic)
2005 E46 330Ci coupe
Location: Frankfurt am Main
Germany (de)

Re: E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

Postby gtmoore » Fri, 05 Jul 2013 07:53:06 UTC

Just my observations - after coming from a long(ish) line of 6 cylinder petrols (with a V8 and a diesel sprinkled in between), there's never been very much to separate any of them on fuel economy. With mixed driving - but mostly M25 stuff, I get around 30. The best being my current car and the worst (not including the Alpina which was very old) my 525 (M54) for some reason.

With my 630, I find that the fuel consumption might be a little bit better when I just drive it and forget about trying to be very economical (although I like to think I'm a mechanically sympathetic driver at all times). When I'm trying for a high mpg, doing the long coasting and light throttle and braking etc, the car seems to get a little confused - as though it can't quite anticipate what I'm going to do next. This makes me think that the reported figures are achieved by knowing exactly how the car is designed to be driven. Are these tests carried out by the manufacturer?
Gavin
gtmoore
Intermediate

Posts: 173
Joined: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:06:40 UTC
BMW Members Cars: Current: E63 630i Sport Auto 2007
Previous: E39 520iSE Auto 2001,E60 520d MSport Manual 2007 E39 525iSE Auto 2001, E34 Alpina B10 1989, E34 530iV8 Auto 1994, E34 520iSE Auto 1994, E34 520iSE Manual 1990
Location: Croydon, Surrey
United Kingdom (uk)

Re: E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

Postby Peter » Fri, 05 Jul 2013 08:58:54 UTC

gtmoore wrote:Just my observations - after coming from a long(ish) line of 6 cylinder petrols (with a V8 and a diesel sprinkled in between), there's never been very much to separate any of them on fuel economy. With mixed driving - but mostly M25 stuff, I get around 30. The best being my current car and the worst (not including the Alpina which was very old) my 525 (M54) for some reason.

With my 630, I find that the fuel consumption might be a little bit better when I just drive it and forget about trying to be very economical (although I like to think I'm a mechanically sympathetic driver at all times). When I'm trying for a high mpg, doing the long coasting and light throttle and braking etc, the car seems to get a little confused - as though it can't quite anticipate what I'm going to do next. This makes me think that the reported figures are achieved by knowing exactly how the car is designed to be driven. Are these tests carried out by the manufacturer?


The test regime is a specific test, who ever does it. The exact procedure applies to all cars and therefore manufacturers can design and 'tune' to perform best in those exact conditions. There have been some interesting disclosures of how they tweak their cars to get best results. My understanding, manufacturers test their own cars in verified laboratories, but in the EU, type approval and production conformity is by independent national authorities.

Not sure why your car should be confused when driving lightly, unless something is not quite right in the cars electronics. As an observation, for any driving style you must be very consistent with inputs or these latest cars can be receiving signals that we'd understand as conflicting. If we are consistent then responses should be very smooth and appropriate. The end game is to try and keep the gearbox in the extreme economy programme (XE map) when driving for economy, just one stab on the brake (brake evaluation) or throttle (kick-fast) could interfere with that mode. Then it takes a few moves/inputs to settle back down again.

Peter
Car: BMW F11 535i M-Sport Auto Touring
Peter
BMW Warlord
Site Supporter

User avatar

Posts: 16831
Images: 0
Joined: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 08:26:55 UTC
Location: Highland

Re: E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

Postby idrussell » Fri, 05 Jul 2013 12:03:25 UTC

No experience of a E39 but for what its worth in my 2009 E61 530i I am getting and average of 29mpg round town / to work (8 miles each way) on a longer motorway run about 34mpg (recent 1600 mile round trip to France yielded this figure with mixed driving)
idrussell
User

Posts: 87
Joined: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 08:59:11 UTC
BMW Members Cars: 2009 530i SE Touring
2013 116i ES
1990 Porsche 944 S2
United Kingdom (uk)

Re: E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

Postby gtmoore » Fri, 05 Jul 2013 12:11:35 UTC

Hi Peter

I think the cars behaviour when attempting to drive economically is not what I am expecting rather than actually being wrong. Perhaps it's still getting used to me! I did need to have a software update and recalibration of the Valvetronic system to address a fairly major hesitancy when I first got the car so maybe its still bedding itself in. I'm over the moon with the car generally but I'll keep an eye on it.

Cheers
Gavin
gtmoore
Intermediate

Posts: 173
Joined: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:06:40 UTC
BMW Members Cars: Current: E63 630i Sport Auto 2007
Previous: E39 520iSE Auto 2001,E60 520d MSport Manual 2007 E39 525iSE Auto 2001, E34 Alpina B10 1989, E34 530iV8 Auto 1994, E34 520iSE Auto 1994, E34 520iSE Manual 1990
Location: Croydon, Surrey
United Kingdom (uk)

Re: E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

Postby seadooxp » Fri, 05 Jul 2013 13:46:55 UTC

Have had 2 530i E60's.

Current one averaging around 300-20 miles per tank - that's with predominantly town driving in the rush hour and mixed at the weekend. So expect 20-22mpg on town driving.

If on a run to the coast somewhere, I can squeeze 400 miles out the tank. Steady 80/85 it's clocking 30/31mpg.

I had an E39 530i Aegean and that was roughly similar in terms of mpg, maybe 5% less efficient.
seadooxp
Advanced

User avatar

Posts: 659
Joined: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:15:07 UTC
BMW Members Cars: 2006 E60 530i M Sport
Location: Sunny Brum
United Kingdom (uk)

Re: E39 528i vs E60 530i fuel economy

Postby mega-e39-fan » Fri, 05 Jul 2013 15:04:05 UTC

gappysmegg wrote:
Peter wrote:And don't ever put the facts on a spread sheet. It is too frightening for most to contemplate. :shock:


Too late :shock: ...... I analyse most things in spreadsheets, bit of a control freak like that.

Working on having freed up a grand, so my next car can cost my 525d + 1000 max.
So, using some fab man-maths, if I can swap my 525d for an M5, I have a grand with which to absorb the extra fuel consumption... once the grand is gone, gotta sell the car.
However, even using my feeble 5000 annual mileage, I would have to sell the M5 within 18 months!


So what you're saying is... you can buy an E39 M5 and absorb the extra fuel costs for 18 months. That makes me wonder how much more are the running costs compared to a 528i/530i... obviously more but can anyone quantify this?

If it was me in a similar position, I'd do it. but then I'm impulsive [:D]
mega-e39-fan

User avatar

Posts: 1292
Joined: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 14:34:53 UTC
BMW Members Cars: Facelift E39 530i Sport
Location: West Yorkshire
United Kingdom (uk)

Next

  • Forum Topics on BMWLand that may be of intetest to you
    Replies
    Views
    Last Forum post

Return to BMW 5 series Forum

BMWLand: Who is online

Users browsing this BMW forum: TNT and 12 guests