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520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby bigfruit » Fri, 10 Feb 2012 19:28:06 UTC

Less miles, less wear, less problems....more value! It´s called ageing....the older something gets....worst value.
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Helpmedo520d » Sat, 11 Feb 2012 14:50:09 UTC

Arunas B wrote:
Helpmedo520d wrote:hi lightwavin,
valves on diesel are almost perfectly vertical and the do not potrude into the cylinder or come too close to the piston.maybe there will be no damage,.


Mate, please, do you hawe a clue what you talking abaut???

pls feel free to educate us so we are all little bit more wiser.
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby tim0409 » Sat, 11 Feb 2012 16:05:38 UTC

BMWcare wrote:
tim0409 wrote:Thanks Peter.

I have just had a strange thing happen today though - I was pulling away and as I went above 1500rpm I heard a really strange metallic "chain" type noise which then disappeared - the more I think about it it has happened once before (in the last 3k miles). Odd as it seems to be so intermittent - hope this is not a sign!

cheers

Tim

There is a known issue about this. BMW have a puma measure.
Get to your dealer quickly! Crank will have tone changed most likely...

Kind Regards,
Eddie.


Thanks Eddie. I have taken a short video with sound of my N47 118d - apart from the very intermittent sound previously mentioned, this is the engine at idle (from cold) and then up to 2k rpm - any thoughts? It sounds noisy but then I have heard that the engines just are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kajTJpmM ... e=youtu.be
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Toadie » Sun, 26 Feb 2012 16:12:22 UTC

Not a lot pf love for this engine either:

I have a 2008 520D (177)that I have just put 14,000 miles on since purchase , now at 89k.

The other evening I had a low coolant light with no prior warning. I am having a complete nightmare with a main dealer who has subsequently removed the head and put it back together , only to take it apart again to reveal a crack in the extremely thin material (3-4mm inc the liners) between bores 2 & 3.

Any comments would be very welcome
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Toadie » Sun, 26 Feb 2012 16:24:14 UTC

2008 520D (177)

I also have had a circa 10k quote from bmw due to a cracked block!

I have just put 14,000 miles on since purchase , now at 89k. Me thinks that thes engines are beginning to fall apart quite regularly, just out of warranty
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby bigfruit » Mon, 27 Feb 2012 09:53:31 UTC

Hhhmmm....
This is very odd!
I´ve gotta ask myself, why is this happening mainly in the UK? Is it that the germans are still :banned: off of having lost the first and second WW to you BRITS?!?!?.... So they just send you guys all the crapy engines full of defects?!?!? ahahahahahahahaha
Because here in Portugal I,ve only heard of one case. And I´ve beeing talking to many mechanics ,car dealers and friends that have bimmers with this engine(N47) and nobody seems to have a problem.
So I leave a suggestion... Hey you BRITS...don´t buy hitlers cars, cause the are secretly at war with you guys again! ahahahahahah ;-)
Cheers to all ;-)
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby k44ent » Sun, 04 Mar 2012 10:34:28 UTC

My 2008 E61 fitted with the 177 2.0d engine started with a rattle around 1800 rpm, it was traced to the timing chain after replacement of the alternator, bottom pulley and a few other bits.. BMW took dimensions of the tooth pitch of the chain sprocket on the camshaft. This was out of tolerance so the car had a new cam shaft, crank shaft, chain etc. While my car was in another car was being booked in for the same fault. The noise started at 30k miles. I sold the car at 60k and it was fine but i was a passenger in the car the other day, 95k miles and I think the noise is starting to come back. BMW cover the engine work as the car was a year old.
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Helpmedo520d » Sun, 04 Mar 2012 20:19:47 UTC

k44ent wrote:My 2008 E61 fitted with the 177 2.0d engine started with a rattle around 1800 rpm, it was traced to the timing chain after replacement of the alternator, bottom pulley and a few other bits.. BMW took dimensions of the tooth pitch of the chain sprocket on the camshaft. This was out of tolerance so the car had a new cam shaft, crank shaft, chain etc. While my car was in another car was being booked in for the same fault. The noise started at 30k miles. I sold the car at 60k and it was fine but i was a passenger in the car the other day, 95k miles and I think the noise is starting to come back. BMW cover the engine work as the car was a year old.

Seems to becoming epedemic level.I have spoken to BMW and they seem to think that 100000miles the cars are doing before failure means that it is not design but driver problem however the cases where this is happening to low mileage vehicles is unexplainable .BMW has to put their hand up and admit the issue exists and remedy it with good will payment until the solution is available.But t6hey will not.I think we need to set up a page where all the owners who have had this problem can leave the details of their vehicle for making a group claim,
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Andy_Em » Mon, 05 Mar 2012 15:56:55 UTC

Hi All,

My first post on this website, though I did post similar information elsewhere on the same subject. Seems to be more activity here perhaps with regards this issue.

I have 2009 E61 520d. Starting 'ticking' once engine warmed up at 25K miles ish. It was most noticable from 2000rpm to 2500rpm in second and third gear.

First dealer visit = new alternator belt at front of engine.
Second visit = new crankshaft damper
Third visit = new belt tensioner

In the meantime I did some serious Google work.

Fourth visit, and a trip round the block with the guys in the car = Engine out. New timing chain, guide tensioners and Oil pump. This was 30k miles.

I wasn't sure on the oil pump, especially after I was aware of the issue being the crankshaft timing gear. BUT, no new crankshaft.

Three days later and the car was back, and quiet. I'd perhaps hadn't appreciated how noisy it was.

6 months later, and my oversensitive, tuned ears have picked the familar noise building again... Now at 39K miles. Watch this space.

Some other good info is here;

http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/59506-200 ... when-warm/

http://translate.goo...uenal-578548%2F

http://www.auto-inno...47t28print.html
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Helpmedo520d » Mon, 05 Mar 2012 19:01:14 UTC

Hi Andy i am assume you still have 18 months warranty on the work the dealer did in replacing the timing chains.if it was under warranty why did they not replace the crankshaft as the sprockets on the crankshaft are responsible for driving the chains and i believe there was an issue with the cranshafts.I have heard the burrs on the crankshaft can make the chain wear and fail.this is specially true if the timing chain has snapped and only the chains are replaced and the crank shaft sprockets are not cleaned properly.As they say keep the ear to the engine and follow up any noices before the warranty expires.
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Andy_Em » Tue, 06 Mar 2012 09:01:37 UTC

I'm still within the original 3 year warranty.

It's just been in for the brake fluid change and various other warranty bits and I did mention it. The service guy this time actually acknowledged noisy chains which was a first for me. Another 3000 and it's back in for an oil service, so I'll make more of an issue of it then and see where we go.

I was originally mystified by the decision not to replace the crank, the tech mentioned it at the time when I took him for a ride but when I got the car back with no new crank. Everything else I would expect to have been replaced was, along with the oil pump? Odd and surely not a cheap part either. I fully expect to get the crank replaced at some point! New engine must be cheaper for them now...
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Helpmedo520d » Tue, 06 Mar 2012 19:45:16 UTC

Stay with it till you get it done otherwise out of warranty it is £10000 as my original quote was.I expect they will try their best to delay as much as possible.
BMW is being stubborn and not admitting it is their problem but lots failures and not much good will.I am surprised one of the motoring organizations has not picked this up and run with it.Maybe it just suits them to just keep on recovering and not rock the boat.Normally autocar mag is pretty good at this but it is also quite.maybe joe public driving these cars is not bothered much as they can afford to pay or their companies are paying.
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Andy_Em » Wed, 07 Mar 2012 12:25:33 UTC

PUMA Case Details - Google apologises for the poor translation...

I note it now on serial 03 (previus post was diligence number -02) and the approval date is Dec 2011. After my car went in..!

Andy

>>

PUMA 13588845-03 incidence recorded by BMW and its repair: http://www.puma-index.de/Lists/PUMA/AllItems.aspx

Diligence-number Item
43863106-03 N47, N47S, N47T, rustling sound in the engine, timing chain rubs.

Approval date (day.month.year) Status Organization
Approved 14.12.11 Germany, automobiles

Vehicles affected
E Series Motor Body
E60 E61 E81 E82 E83 N47 N47DKO N47S N47T E61 E60 E81 E82 E83 N47 N47S N47T N47DKO
E84 E87 E88 E90 E91 E87 E84 E88 E90 E91
E92 E93 F10 F11 F25 E93 E92 F10 F11 F25

Feedback Comment production interval Feedback
(From / to) on the production interval diligence (day.month.year) to (day.month.year)
/ 01.03.11 / 01.03.11

Complaint
Sound of friction drag on the engine from about 1500 rpm, which is visible from the inside.
The noise can be perceived in area of the gearbox housing and the oil pan.

Cause
Excessively sharp edges on the sprockets, the chain does not flow evenly over the guides.

Measures
We must distinguish two cases:

Case 1:

For engines N47, N47DKO, N47S, interval from 01.03.2007 to production 05.01.2009.

In case of customer complaint must change the following parts:
(See Annexes, Figures 1 to 7.) - Nov. 21 7803479 Sutitución the crankshaft bearings.

Caution: Use only crankshafts with a production date back to 5. 1. 1. 2009 2009
The production date is printed on crankshaft sprocket (see page 2 of the Annex)

Meaning of the figures:
The first two indicate the assembly line.
The 6 following year (two digits), month, day.
Last 5 indicate the reference number of the crankshaft.
Thus, the crankshaft shown on page 2 of the annex was built on October 21, 2009.
41 -11 7,797,896 chain oil pump.
11 31 8 506 652 Timing Chain bottom.
13 52 7 797 906 sprocket for driving the high pressure pump.
11 27 7 800 523 sprocket (intermediate for balance shafts).
11 8,510,014 31 Supply Chain superior.
-11 7,797,899 31 Timing Chain Guide above.
-13 7,797,904 52 Timing Chain Guide below.

Note: Adjusting the intermediate gear shafts accurately balanced according to workshop manual. In case this intermediate sprocket and the balance shafts are not sufficiently fit, the motor can still giving rise to noise despite the new crankshaft.

See November 21 workshop manual 500 "crankshaft replacement."

Note: In the case of vehicles to which a previous repair and they replaced the crankshaft:
Proceed with these vehicles as detailed in "Case 2".

Case 2:

N47 engine, N47DKO, N47S, N47T production interval 05.01.2009 - 01.03.2011

In case of customer complaint replace the following parts:
(See Appendix, Art 8 to 10)
-11 8,506,652 31 Supply Chain bottom.
- 13 52 7 797 906 sprocket high pressure pump.
- 11 31 8 510 014 Supply Chain superior.
-11 7,797,899 31 Timing Chain Guide above.
-13 7,797,904 52 Timing Chain Guide below.

Note: There is no need to release the binding thread of the intermediate toothed wheel balancer shafts.

Note: As of March 2011 there are new guidelines. These guidelines do not bring reinforcing ribs.

(See Appendix, pp. 7 and 10.)
In this way the inner surface of the guides is smooth throughout its length and the timing chain runs easily on them.
They have not changed the references.

Note: During the repair make sure guides are mounted without lateral veins (in the Annex, Art 7 and 10.)

Attention:
No repairs are allowed in vehicles with production date after 03/2011 and vehicles in which all existing measures have already been made. The sound now is the moment, the normal state of this world! No risk of broken chain!

Not allowed engine change because of this claim!

Claim
Location of the defect: Defect Type: Circumstances of default:
Guide part incorrect

Crank Noise
Wheel motor
Distribution

Worn crankshaft
Wheel motor
Distribution

Motor Noise Motor Power
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby The Trumpinator » Thu, 08 Mar 2012 21:05:13 UTC

Hi Guys. I thought i would share my experience to help those, both before or during encountering this timing chain failure..
3 weeks ago I bought a 57 Reg 520d Tourer with 135,000 miles on the clock. I researched this type of vehicle before purchasing and could find no faults and so went ahead with the purchase. Full BMW service history with printout of works and in immaculate condition. Exactly 7 days after purchasing this car, the engine management light came on and the vehicle cut out. Cutting a long story short, the vehicle would not start and I took it to a BMW Independent specialist who soon discovered the Timing Chain has snapped. He spoke with a local BMW main dealer who said they have had a few of these of late and they change the timing chain and crankshaft.
I was totally gobsmacked when I heard this news. BMW report this timing chain is for life, but obviously not 135,000 miles. My instant reaction was to get straight on to BMW and get them to pay for this work. But this is when I found this forum and this thread. I then spoke with a few people in the trade and they all informed me that I would either be asked to take the car to a BMW dealer for them to investigate or they would class it as wear and tear..So I gave up and pressed ahead with the repairs myself...
This is where the misery went from bad to worse!
As they dismantled the engine, they discovered that damage has been sustained to the cylinder/rods/head, I guess the typical belt failure symptoms and I was advised to buy a new engine.
I started looking for a second hand engine with a code of N47D20C. I found one on EBay and arranged for its delivery. A day later I had a call to say that it would not fit my engine. The donar engine was 2010 with the N47D20C code, but there was some subtle changes which meant it would not fit..So the same company then offered me a different engine they had in stock which was a 2008 with the same code..The day after they sent this engine by courier, I had another call from them...The courier had returned the engine to them with apologies because they managed to drive the fork of a fork lift into the side of the unit, causing untold damage..Engine number 2, no good either!!
I bet you think my luck stinks by now...?
I then started looking for another engine and made contact with several companies (mainly in London area).
I got sucked in to someone who promised to replace ALL the parts in my engine and refurbish this for £1295 + £295 labour + £95 oils + VAT with 5 year unlimited warranty..Sounded like a good option, until I found that this company had rebranded from Heathrow Engines who were on Watchdog and known to be the worst company to deal with..Luckily, I had a quick escape..
I then found 2 companies who had this engine in stock..
I went to proceed with the purchase from new company number 1, until I found out that they source their engines from Japan and have them shipped over...How on earth can you trust this type of engine ??!!! Cancelled this order.
On to new engine supplier number 2 Promised me that it was sourced from the UK, but when my mechanic viewed the photos of this engine it appeared to have alien ancillary connections with a few things that didn't add up..
Coming to the end of my tether I asked my mechanic for advice whether I should look for a re manufactured engine or a low mileage UK sourced engine that had not been modified?
His advice i think made sense and I thought I would also share this with you..
When you buy a second hand engine, most of the companies will demand that you give them your old engine in part exchange...What do you think they do with that? Replace some parts (only those that they think need changing) and then sell it on..But you cannot guarantee how they sell this..They could lie and tell you its a low mileage engine and done 10,000 miles or sell it as re manufacturered but there could be parts they did not replace that could still go wrong..So his advice was to buy from a reputable breaker and an engine that has not been modified at all.
So to end this story. The only named garage I will mention here is the reputable garage I bought this engine from..Quarry Motors. They are highly recommended through BMW forums and have a good history behind them.
I must add, I only bought the engine today and it has not been delivered yet, but I am hopeful that I have hit the run of bad luck.
I hope this story will be of use to others and I would be happy to share my experience with anyone if you wish to discuss.
The only issue lies with BMW...Am I right in thinking that there is no recourse with them?
If this is the case, then I hope that an additional story and problem will add to the cause.
Happy motoring :-)
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby lightwavin » Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:12:18 UTC

Hey Trumpinator, let us know how you got on with the engine from Quarry Motors as I am in the same position with regards to finding a replacement engine. BMW were of no use at all in claiming for the snapped timing chain.
Cheers.
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby forzaf1 » Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:39:56 UTC

My 520d 57 plate is now in with BMW. Ticking started and there no was difference in the car other than ticking and sounding louder than normal but no performance issue.

Took it into BMW and said the timing chain might be starting to go. Reply from services was "I've never know them to, especially on a 5 series, but have heard about them on a 1 series."

Next day: call to say that timing belt and camshaft need replacing and "a few other bits".
Today: We now need to replace the head casket aswell and don't have that part in stock.

Looking to get the car back mid next week (over a week and a half without it).

Lucky....so far they say it's all covered under the BMW warranty that I took out in January but can't wait to see what the bill could have been.
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby e60_msport » Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:42:18 UTC

Hi forzaf1. What was the current mileage that you had on your 520d when you had the timing chain failure?
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby forzaf1 » Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:28:16 UTC

I'm on 120k.
2008-2010: e90, 325i M Sport - leather, 18inch rims, Bluetooth.
2010-2012: e60, LCI 520d M Sport - xenons
2012 onwards: e92, 325d M Sport - heated seats, leather seats, sat nav, voice control, BMW Connected Drive, 19inch rims, met paint, sliding armrest.
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby lightwavin » Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:06:57 UTC

Just as an update, I purchased my replacement engine from Quarry motors and had a very good experience with them. My local BMW specialist has been using them for years and recommends them highly. So the car is back up and running at a cost of about 4.5k - I had the clutch and flywheel replaced at the same time, plus a new battery.

Shame BMW were not more helpful, so it looks like a few disgruntled members may be taking this further. I will be building a website to highlight this issue [I am a web designer, so not to hard to do] - hopefully BMW will take more responsibility over this defect in their engines!
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby newBMW5 » Mon, 21 May 2012 13:05:49 UTC

Hi Guys,

i've just puchased a 520d m sport - 57 plate. Having read this I'm a little concerned to say the least. Is there anything I should check for (or listen for ) straight away?

Thanks!
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