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520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

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520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Helpmedo520d » Fri, 16 Dec 2011 22:27:24 UTC

Can anybody advice me if they have had any goodwill help from BMW UK for repair costs for timing chain failure on the new N47 failure.The time chain failed whilst idling so no major damage except for the timing chain and its mechanism.
The mileage is just over 100000 and the car is 3 yrs and 8 months old.I know it is out of warranty and the car was not bought from bmw dealer but all the servicing has been done by the BMW dealer.There is no servicing requirement on the chain as it is designed to last the life of the engine.I personally think there is design problem with the timing chain drive mechanism on the new N47 engine as there have been many premature failures.BMW should hold up their hands and say there is a problem and fix these early failures.Some have failed as low mileage as 70,000.The cost is roughly 10000 pounds per repair at BMW service centre.I would appreciate any help on this subject.Are there any options in reducing this cost.
:? :?
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby jasonh » Sat, 17 Dec 2011 09:30:48 UTC

£10,000 can't be just the chain. That sounds like a replacement engine.

Even at idle the pistons are still moving and will hit the valves.

I'd say your best bet would be a replacement engine, perhaps £3000. Have a look on eBay.
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby jasonh » Sat, 17 Dec 2011 09:34:15 UTC

There are a few people on eBay offering supply and fit for a 520d engine for under £2k.
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Clavurion » Sat, 17 Dec 2011 10:33:07 UTC

These problems with N47 timing chain are comming more often. Still BMW doesn't recognise the problem. There is no official bulletin or PUMA case which is odd.
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Harry » Sat, 17 Dec 2011 13:27:37 UTC

Yeah. That will be a whole engine. Rather expensive for one little pin or spring, but it depends on what happens next. I had a snapped Ford cam belt which caused no damage at all. Lucky.
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby alpinaman » Sat, 17 Dec 2011 14:48:37 UTC

There are loads and loads doing it...

One of our customers has a 120d and it jumped the chain at 17k!!!!!

Luckily under warranty..
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Helpmedo520d » Sun, 18 Dec 2011 11:01:16 UTC

jasonh wrote:£10,000 can't be just the chain. That sounds like a replacement engine.

Even at idle the pistons are still moving and will hit the valves.

I'd say your best bet would be a replacement engine, perhaps £3000. Have a look on eBay.


This is the official estimate to get it back on the road by BMW ,I am at their mercy as car is already in their garage and £3000 cost as been incurred in dismantling the engine and checking for damage.biggest cost is labour at £165/hr ,parts are only £1500 rest is labour.Has any body got goodwill from BMW for this.
The longer BMW bury their head in the sand the worst it will become for their image as there is definately a problem in the design of the timing chain mechanism.Wake up BMW
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby e60_msport » Sun, 18 Dec 2011 11:16:06 UTC

I agree completely. I own a 2008 520d N47 engine that has done 42K. It has been fully serviced by BMW. It has now started to make a timing chain noise, the dealer (two of them) are not admitting this is a problem with the engine, nor are BMW recognising it as an issue but want £2000 to dismantle and see if there is anything wrong. This is my first BMW and at this rate will be my last.

Like the previous poster stated, BMW needs to wake up and recognise this issue.
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Neil.d » Sun, 18 Dec 2011 11:52:56 UTC

Rod bearings on the E36 M3 and the E39 M5, swirl flaps, timing chains on the 3/520d, thermostats across the board, theyve got some work to do!
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Thinking of buying(or not)520d E60 N47

Postby bigfruit » Mon, 19 Dec 2011 12:12:35 UTC

Hello to everyone.
Let me start by introducing myself. My name is Pedro, I´m from Portugal and I´m thinking of buying a 2008 BMW 520d N47.
But after reading all these engine problems... I´m not shure anymore! :-(
If allways loved BIMMERS, I think they are beautiful and an aswome machine. So I now own a 2000 Audi A6 2.5 TDI V6 and a 2004 Toyota RAV4 D4D.
I´ve had no major problems with the Audi and none at all with the Toyota! Besides of people saying that car like my audi have lots of problems, mine has a repro and 240.000 Km and pedal to the metal at all times. :-) Just love to squeeze those horses :-p
So now I´m very interested in a 2008 520d E61 N47, but I read all over that these engines are crapy. So I would like to have some feedback on this car, from owners or not.

Thanks alot, and hope to be in the BIMMER club soon! ;-)
Pedro.
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Clavurion » Mon, 19 Dec 2011 16:16:00 UTC

520d with M47N2 engine would all in all be a safer bet.
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Re: Thinking of buying(or not)520d E60 N47

Postby Helpmedo520d » Mon, 19 Dec 2011 20:44:33 UTC

bigfruit wrote:Hello to everyone.
Let me start by introducing myself. My name is Pedro, I´m from Portugal and I´m thinking of buying a 2008 BMW 520d N47.
But after reading all these engine problems... I´m not shure anymore! :-(
If allways loved BIMMERS, I think they are beautiful and an aswome machine. So I now own a 2000 Audi A6 2.5 TDI V6 and a 2004 Toyota RAV4 D4D.
I´ve had no major problems with the Audi and none at all with the Toyota! Besides of people saying that car like my audi have lots of problems, mine has a repro and 240.000 Km and pedal to the metal at all times. :-) Just love to squeeze those horses :-p
So now I´m very interested in a 2008 520d E61 N47, but I read all over that these engines are crapy. So I would like to have some feedback on this car, from owners or not.

Thanks alot, and hope to be in the BIMMER club soon! ;-)
Pedro.

Hello Pedro,
I suggest if you are determined to buy the BMW 2008 520D with n47 engine then get extended warranty but this will only cover you till a certain time then your BMW will be too old to be covered and you are riding on your luck.Sooner or later it will happen as the engine is fairly new and not proven liked the old famed engines still running over 250000miles.These timing chain failures are showing up now after 4 to 5 years of usage but the worrying thing is that it is happening at low mileage as well.It is shame BMW is not taking this serious .If this new engine fails then gearbox,head and lots of other bits have to come out not to mention the engine.The problems also lingers as rebuilt is not up to quality and electrical plugs are disturbed and always there is this and that sensor showing on the service or just nuisance.
I would stick with the Audi as more reliable and not ding product development ath expensse of unlucky customers.
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Helpmedo520d » Mon, 19 Dec 2011 20:46:55 UTC

Clavurion wrote:These problems with N47 timing chain are comming more often. Still BMW doesn't recognise the problem. There is no official bulletin or PUMA case which is odd.

Excuse my ignorance what is PUMA case.Maybe BMW Is supressing some info.
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Helpmedo520d » Mon, 19 Dec 2011 20:50:02 UTC

e60_msport wrote:I agree completely. I own a 2008 520d N47 engine that has done 42K. It has been fully serviced by BMW. It has now started to make a timing chain noise, the dealer (two of them) are not admitting this is a problem with the engine, nor are BMW recognising it as an issue but want £2000 to dismantle and see if there is anything wrong. This is my first BMW and at this rate will be my last.

Like the previous poster stated, BMW needs to wake up and recognise this issue.

What kind of noise are you getting.is it like pinking or tinkling sound ?
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Helpmedo520d » Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:00:23 UTC

alpinaman wrote:There are loads and loads doing it...

One of our customers has a 120d and it jumped the chain at 17k!!!!!

Luckily under warranty..

Proves this is design problem,I think the torque being produced by the engine is too high and the timming chain cannot cope with it.especially if it is jumping sprocket with out breaking.The whole drive train is suspect.Bmw needs to look and redesign and test further.As they say Back to the drawing board.
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Peter » Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:31:03 UTC

Helpmedo520d wrote:Proves this is design problem,I think the torque being produced by the engine is too high and the timming chain cannot cope with it.especially if it is jumping sprocket with out breaking.The whole drive train is suspect.Bmw needs to look and redesign and test further.As they say Back to the drawing board.


It won't be the engine torque, as that is not related to a timing chain/tensioner in any way.

The petrol N42 valvetronic engine had a similar issue early on, where a rattle could be heard from the timing chain. The culprit was a simple plastic part that was failing, allowing the chain to run loose and even jump the sprockets. In the N42 engine, the timing chain guide and tensioner got redesigned parts, part way through its life.

So this type of issue is not new in a BMW engine. What is more difficult, in this instance, the timing chain and associated bits are at the rear of the N47 engine. So an engine out repair, making it far more expensive.

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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby bigfruit » Mon, 19 Dec 2011 23:35:02 UTC

Hi again.
Thanks to all. But at this point I think I´m getting depressed, cause I realy want to get the 520d. I´m gonna consider the 525d or change dramaticly and get me a volvo or a merc...and then I can stop thinking about these stupid engineering flaws. Sometimes I just don't get the brains on newbie engeneers. Have they got :banned: for brains or too keen on pising us off. Cause I hate buying weak products!! And thats why I´m having serious headaches about buying a "suposed premium car". I just think I´ll be better off on a 220 cdi merc! But...this weak I´ll have to decide, cause I realy want my christmas present still this year :-p
Thanks again to all!
Cheers.
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Peter » Tue, 20 Dec 2011 09:53:50 UTC

bigfruit wrote:Hi again.
Thanks to all. But at this point I think I´m getting depressed, cause I realy want to get the 520d. I´m gonna consider the 525d or change dramaticly and get me a volvo or a merc...and then I can stop thinking about these stupid engineering flaws. Sometimes I just don't get the brains on newbie engeneers. Have they got :banned: for brains or too keen on pising us off. Cause I hate buying weak products!! And thats why I´m having serious headaches about buying a "suposed premium car". I just think I´ll be better off on a 220 cdi merc! But...this weak I´ll have to decide, cause I realy want my christmas present still this year :-p
Thanks again to all!
Cheers.


It is so easy to say, "I'll go to Audi or Merc" and be free of issues, but is that really so? We run VW/Audi in the family and I could easily depress you with major issues from that stable. Let alone if you read a few of the forums. Merc is not immune either, just look at the track record of customer dissatisfaction. Not sure what the current status is on the models you'd be looking at, but there are issues in some Merc 'mechanicals' if you dig deep.

I've come to the conclusion if we run modern complex motors from any manufacturer, best if we can have a warranty/extended warranty for "peace of mind" motoring.

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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby gtmoore » Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:07:27 UTC

Think you just need one of these.

http://www.bmw-warranty.co.uk/Pages/Information.aspx?page=Products/DriveLine/Features.htm

Quote for my 57 plate 520d with 44k comes in around £350pa with £250 excess. No mileage or age limit for this level of cover which includes timing chains and turbo's

Guess the price goes up with age/mileage?
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Re: 520d E60 N47 Premature failure of timing chain

Postby Smutzy55 » Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:36:19 UTC

I agree with previous response that basically it does not matter which company you buy from-- they will all have issues.
With respect to BMW ignoring it--- I doubt that very much. They, just like Merc and Audi will be keen to have the lions share of the market and having a dodgy engine isn't going to achieve that.
I would suspect that they have a database of failures which are analysed to look for trends, once a trend is established they can act on it. If it's not a trend but isolated incidents up to a critical number then it will probably be within acceptable limits (in their eyes) Of course, that is no help to anyone who has had a problem.
As far as BMW cost go-- that has been an eye opener and once out of whatever warranty i have. if I do get any problems I will be going to the BMW specialist garage rather than BMW.
Resistance is futile.
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