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E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

BMW forum 5 series car: E12, E28, E34, E39, E60, E61, F07, F10, F11

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Re: E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

Postby poppy sammy » Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:06:22 UTC

3F57 DDE: Charge Air Pressure Controller


Usually at the rear of the intake manifold.Google map sensor.
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Re: E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

Postby bryntech » Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:09:27 UTC

Is there not another pressure sensor in the pipe coming from the intercooler?
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Re: E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

Postby poppy sammy » Sun, 12 Jun 2011 13:02:38 UTC

bryntech wrote:Is there not another pressure sensor in the pipe coming from the intercooler?

That one will be the air intake temperature sensor,and will also cause the turbo to stop boosting.fault code 4390/4391.
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Re: E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

Postby bryntech » Sun, 12 Jun 2011 14:02:24 UTC

I thought air intake temp was measured in the Maf?
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Re: E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

Postby poppy sammy » Sun, 12 Jun 2011 14:46:50 UTC

bryntech wrote:I thought air intake temp was measured in the Maf?


Correct! I missed compressed(charge air intake temperature sensor) off my post above oops.As you can see there are a chain of sensors that could cause the turbo not to boost,hence fault codes can be your friend.The ops problem could be an air leak/blockage/sensor etc.Lets not forget that the op has removed his injectors,if the op has not put the injectors back into the correct cylinder then there will also be a fuel injection issue.Most likely the 4b10 code.The original turbo could have been checked with a handycan 3. See the description below part number 10.
http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E61/T ... _duct_agr/
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Re: E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

Postby kiiyt » Mon, 13 Jun 2011 09:49:19 UTC

Gonz0,

No vacuum pipe to the turbo, it is electronic.
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Re: E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

Postby kiiyt » Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:08:25 UTC

poppy sammy,

The injectors went back into their original positions. As far as I am aware, all sense lines were refitted, though given the amount of oil consumed at the time of turbo failure I cannot discount a blockage.

However, I must not lose touch on how all this started. Originally, I had an intermittant power loss which was rectified by stopping, switching the engine off, then restarting after a few seconds which restored power for the rest of the journey.

After around a week it started smoking for a short distance before clearing, and also unable to restore power with the method above. Soon after, the turbo failed (turbine bearing failure) probably due to old age (180k miles).

Having replaced the turbo, I am now left with the original power loss problem, in which the turbo is not boosting, for whatever reason.

So I now need to drill down to the root cause, so the fact that the Charge Air Pressure Actuator had reported 'supply voltage low' and the Charge Air Pressure Controller had appeared with no info, leads me towards this area. However, I could be totally misdirected and do welcome all ideas towards an end fix.
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Re: E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

Postby poppy sammy » Mon, 13 Jun 2011 11:53:33 UTC

Hi, i'd suggest that you erase all fault codes,next take the car for drive(10 minutes etc)Now re-scan the car for fault codes.Note: copy the fault codes

Now erase the fault codes.Make sure the ignition is switched off and then unplug the maf sensor take the car for another ten minute drive with the maf sensor disconnected.Notice any difference in the engines peformance? After the drive re-scan the car for fault codes.
Remember engine off reconnect the maf sensor.As a general rule if the peformance improves with the maf disconnected then the maf sensor is probably faulty.If the engine peformance is worse with the maf sensor disconnected than the maf sensor is working.

With the maf sensor reconnected erase all fault codes take the car for another drive and then rescan and note the fault codes.
Now compare all the new fault codes.

Playing swop shop with parts can quickly get very expensive! The above was how I diagnosed my faulty Maf sensor,no fault code was present(Although engine was suffering turbo lag) until iunplugged the maf sensor,however the cars peformance improved slightly with the maf sensor unplugged.After reconnecting the sensor and rescanning my car a fault for the maf sensor was now present,obviously you would think this was due to me unplugging the maf.Hence why i then erased the fault code took the car for a drive and then rescanned now the fault code for the maf sensor remained.

Could this be the fault on your car? possibly as the fault codes you listed previously show the maf sensor.
follow the advice above at your own risk.
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Re: E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

Postby kiiyt » Mon, 13 Jun 2011 12:04:49 UTC

Thanks poppy,

Is the MAF sensor at the front of the inlet manifold, ie, near the EGR valve and throttle?
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Re: E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

Postby poppy sammy » Mon, 13 Jun 2011 12:19:55 UTC

Hi, the maf sensor is right in front of the air filter but before the turbo.This image should give you some idea.Good luck.
Note this is a 320d.....
Image
ignore the remove bracket in this image.
Image
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Re: E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

Postby kiiyt » Mon, 13 Jun 2011 14:21:48 UTC

Thanks poppy sammy, will be doing this right away.
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Re: E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

Postby neilt » Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:36:23 UTC

I'm now getting very twitchy about the turbo on my 320d. Its in on Friday at a local (well established, well respected) diesel specialist, mainly to diagnose a strange missfire/jerk at about 1500rpm on about 5% throttle (not under load - on slight decline), its done it since i've had the car, and not really got worse in 20k miles, but its the increase in grey/black smoke I get under hard accelerarion that i've been getting lately that worries me.....
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Previously:
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E91 2005 320d SE (198k miles - and I miss it!)
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E90 2005 320d M Sport
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Re: E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

Postby kiiyt » Mon, 13 Jun 2011 17:24:44 UTC

Following poppy sammy's advice, here are the results:

All faults deleted and car driven for around 20 mins. Codes read:

3F57 DDE: Charge Air Pressure Controller...... Note, no comments listed
4203 DDE: Glow Control Unit .................... No Comm via BSD interface, FCP
4507 DDE: Exhaust Gas Recirculation........... Positive Control Deviation (Air mass too low), FCNP
3FF0 DDE: Air-Mass Flow Sensor................ Ratio of calculated to measured air mass too high, FCNP


All faults again deleted and MAF sensor disconnected. Car driven for 10 mins, with NO change in performance, ie, still down on power. Codes then read, and three new faults were present (lower three):

3F57 DDE: Charge Air Pressure Controller...... Note, no comments listed
4203 DDE: Glow Control Unit .................... No Comm via BSD interface, FCP
4507 DDE: Exhaust Gas Recirculation........... Positive Control Deviation (Air mass too low), FCNP
3FF0 DDE: Air-Mass Flow Sensor................ Ratio of calculated to measured air mass too high, FCNP

4BC2 DDE: Air Mass Flow Sensor ................Signal, open or short circuit to +ve/gnd
4BC7 DDE: Intake-Air Temperature Sensor .... (Reference signal for Air Mass Sensor)
4BA0 DDE: Intake-Air Temperature Sensor .... Signal temperature too high or signal, open or short circuit to +ve/gnd


Driving with the MAF disconnected made no difference whatsoever to the way the engine/car ran. I guess it would be worth getting one?
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Re: E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

Postby poppy sammy » Mon, 13 Jun 2011 18:20:40 UTC

Did you reconnect the maf sensor(ignition off) and then erase the new fault codes?
Have you taken the car for another 10 minute drive and then rescanned the car after doing the above?
If yes to the above and the new fault codes are still present then i.m.o the maf sensor has failed.
Please remember that one sensor failing can cause other sensors to give false readings.
If your maf sensor is the original(2005)sensor then it's probably out of spec anyway as it's now 2011.
These people(i can't vouch for them) have been recommended for a new sensor on several posts in the past.
http://www.airmassmeters.com/
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Re: E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

Postby kiiyt » Mon, 13 Jun 2011 21:05:42 UTC

poppy sammy,

As requested, I have reconnected the MAF after deleting present faults, and driven the car. The perfomance remained unchanged (down on power).

The fault code after this drive are as follows:

4203 DDE: Glow Control Unit ......................As prev', No communication via BSD interface
3F57 DDE: Charge Air Pressure Controller........ No comments

Whilst reading these codes and finding my way around the DIS software, I stumbled across a function check of the turbo actuator, which when actioned seemed to work fine, as I could hear the actuator operating.

So, only two codes this time, any suggestions?
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Re: E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

Postby jasonh » Mon, 13 Jun 2011 21:35:50 UTC

kiiyt wrote:Driving with the MAF disconnected made no difference whatsoever to the way the engine/car ran. I guess it would be worth getting one?


The thing is that if the problem is unrelated to the MAF then running on the default program because the MAF is disconnected isn't going to make a difference.

Not much help but are you absolutely sure there are no air leaks or blockages?
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Re: E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

Postby jasonh » Mon, 13 Jun 2011 21:48:59 UTC

This rings a bell so I've had a search round. The last person who had a Charge Air Pressure Controller problem had a problem with the two pressure converter modules that are part of the vacuum pipe system. However in your case, because you've had everything apart I'd be checking all the vacuum hoses are OK and are connected to the right places.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=122040&p=1028488#p1028488

Ignore the glow plug error - that's irrelevant at the moment.
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Re: E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

Postby kiiyt » Mon, 13 Jun 2011 23:32:41 UTC

jasonh, thanks for the info! All vacuum hoses seemed to be in good condition, and all went back in their original positions.

The problem started before the turbo failure, with an intermittant power loss that was initially resetable by stoppping/restarting the engine, which points to a sensor/valve failure. My turbo actuator is electronic, and I have run the test through DIS, and heard it operating, so it must be something else holding it back.
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Re: E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

Postby poppy sammy » Mon, 13 Jun 2011 23:44:25 UTC

4203 DDE: Glow Control Unit ......................As prev', No communication via BSD interface
3F57 DDE: Charge Air Pressure Controller........ No comments


Hi, Looks like the map sensor is either faulty/blocked or there is a leak in the air intake/exhaust system.I wouldn't buy a new maf sensor as the fault codes(maf) have now disappeared.I'd remove and clean the map sensor usually located at the back of the inlet manifold,if you havn't already done so i'd also clean/check the egr valve.Also check the air intake pipes from the air filter/turbo/intercooler/egr for leaks and also the exhaust system.

IIrc you mentioned a cracked manifold has this been fixed?
A new map sensor is around £60 iirc,get a quote from cotswold bmwland site sponsors.first try cleaning the sensor though.
This picture was my old map sensor,if you look closely you will see the soot on the tip of the sensor.
Image
Image
and now a new map sensor on my 320d......Ignore the part number.
Image
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Re: E60 530D (2005) turbo failure

Postby kiiyt » Tue, 14 Jun 2011 09:44:30 UTC

Thanks poppy sammy.

I am back to work today, so have limited time in the evening when home, however, I will go through your list of suugestions during the week, bit by bit!

When doing the turbo, I did give the induction pipes a good clean and made sure they were refitted correctly, however, it will be worth rechecking.

Regarding the exhaust manifold, the two cracks were welded and are no longer an issue.

Will get back to you soon, thanks for the ongoing help.
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