BMW: 3 series vs Mercedes C Class : BMW 3 series Forum • BMWLand

  BMW Forum: Car help, questions, answers, BMW discussion forum  
BMW Forum for UK BMW Car owners : Where Power Meets Control

BMW Forum: BMWLand Forum Portal Entrance BMW Forum: BMWLand - Forums for UK BMW Owners BMW Discounts & Support for BMWLand members BMW Forum Twitter, RSS, Facebook for BMWLand members BMW Car Insurance Discount BMWLand: Contact Us BMW Paint Repair discounts for BMWLand members BMW Oil Discount for BMW Engines BMW Car Tyre Discounts for BMWLand Members BMW Car Parts: Genuine BMW Parts Discount for BMWLand Members BMW ECU mapping BMW Swirl Flaps

www.BMWLand.co.uk ©2013                           Contact [email protected]

Peake BMW Diagnostics  
BMW Car Insurance Discount
  
  

3 series vs Mercedes C Class

BMW forum 3 series car: E21, E30, E36, E46, E90, E91, E92, E93, F30, F31, F34, F35

Moderator: Moderators

3 series vs Mercedes C Class

Postby collierd » Sun, 20 Jan 2008 17:20:29 UTC

Hello

has anybody had experience with both the 320i and the Mercedes C200

Some time ago I posted comparing 3 against 5 series and the 5 series is now not really a viable option

This is a company car

My options are 320iSE with about 2.5k extras or C200 upgraded to Elegance plus 1k extras
As above, 520dSE is an option but I can't get anything on it before I pay so it's not really viable
Looking at tax, the Merc is about 300 quid a year more but when you factor in fuel they're about the same

Really, i'm interested in how they drive - both would be manual

Thanks

dc
collierd
User

Posts: 18
Joined: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 15:28:06 UTC

Postby rocketron » Sun, 20 Jan 2008 17:42:50 UTC

Manual Mercedes are quite unloved because of the long shift and awkward clutch action and the BMW will be better to drive, gearchange/handling/steering etc. If it was me i think it would be the 520d, a manual 520d would be a real long distance cruiser with good economy and the best performance compared to the 4 cylinder petrols.
MAZDA CX-5 2.2D 175 SPORT NAV AUTO AWD
E90 320D M-Sport Lemans blue/beige leather/wood/auto/lumbar support/folding mirrors/through load/bluetooth/pro satnav,i-drive/voice control. NOW SOLD
320d se touring now sold.
rocketron
BMW Warlord

Posts: 4924
Joined: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 14:48:59 UTC
Location: north west london

Postby 325coupefan » Sun, 20 Jan 2008 17:56:09 UTC

I changed to an e46 325 coupe from a c270CDi - tho not the very latest C class model. Both autos.

All I can say is go BMW!! Merc not well built, unreliable (auto box failure and many other defects)

In the Merc's favour it was a great motorway cruiser but in all other respects the beemer is way better.
325coupefan
Intermediate

User avatar

Posts: 137
Joined: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 21:57:28 UTC
Location: West of Scotland

Postby agh » Tue, 22 Jan 2008 00:22:50 UTC

The Merc is almost impossible to hill start without auto. due to the insane foot brake for a parking brake. How are you supposed to use your left foot for disengaging the parking brake and control the clutch at the same time?
I don't know how you do it, apparently it's possible but no fun at all.
Adrian
Jaguar XF 3.0 V6 Diesel S 272bhp Premium Luxury + XFR sports seats & Reversing camera.
November 2005 to August 2013: E91 320d SE (Touring).
agh
BMW Warlord
Site Supporter

User avatar

Posts: 11328
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 12:10:45 UTC
BMW Members Cars: Jaguar XF 3.0 V6 Diesel S Premium Luxury
Ford S-Max 2.0 163bhp Diesel Titanium
Location: Hampshire
United Kingdom (uk)

Postby Kryten42 » Tue, 22 Jan 2008 06:49:45 UTC

Yeah, only ever buy an auto Merc, manual ones are a waste of space!
Kryten42
Advanced

User avatar

Posts: 645
Joined: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 06:08:03 UTC
Location: In a world of my own

Postby shadyron » Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:46:39 UTC

Not what you wanted, but when I was looking for the current car I tried out a C220 CDI and various 320Ds. The C220s were generally all very poor. As has been mentioned, the brake is a pain in the :banned:. Generally uncomfortable, and the fittings aren't as nice. To drive? I still prefer the BMW.
shadyron
User

Posts: 41
Joined: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:23:26 UTC

Postby Ally999 » Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:14:01 UTC

agh! wrote:The Merc is almost impossible to hill start without auto. due to the insane foot brake for a parking brake. How are you supposed to use your left foot for disengaging the parking brake and control the clutch at the same time?
I don't know how you do it, apparently it's possible but no fun at all.



Obviously you have never driven a merc with a foot parking brake or you would be aware that it is possible to do a hill start in a manual the pedal is there to apply the parking brake and a lever on the dash to release the brake, so why would you need to have an automatic??????????????? :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
Ally999
Advanced

User avatar

Posts: 787
Joined: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 08:08:38 UTC
Location: Glasgow

Postby agh » Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:47:33 UTC

Ally999 wrote:
agh! wrote:The Merc is almost impossible to hill start without auto. due to the insane foot brake for a parking brake. How are you supposed to use your left foot for disengaging the parking brake and control the clutch at the same time?
I don't know how you do it, apparently it's possible but no fun at all.



Obviously you have never driven a merc with a foot parking brake or you would be aware that it is possible to do a hill start in a manual the pedal is there to apply the parking brake and a lever on the dash to release the brake, so why would you need to have an automatic??????????????? :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:


I'm not referring to the latest model with hill start assist.
True I've not driven one, but I have watched someone else do it.
And in an ariticle about the latest C Class
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=282 wrote:But perhaps the most welcome standard feature of the new C-Class is the introduction of a footbrake that stays ‘live’ for a few seconds and which means an end to the tricky ‘pas de deux’ on the pedals when moving off from rest on a hill.
The foot-operated parking brake introduced by Mercedes to all models some years ago is fine when allied to automatic transmission - but for manual gearbox cars it can be a nerve-racking experience trying to match the clutch and accelerator with the release of a dead-feeling handbrake when parked on a slope, particularly at a busy junction.

http://www.new-car-reviews.co.uk/Mercedes/Mercedes_C_Class_Review.html wrote:The foot operated parking brake also takes some getting used to, particularly cars with a manual gearbox

http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews/car-and-driving/mercedes-c-class-2002142.html wrote:A car of this kind - especially one that rides and grips as well as this Mercedes -should have a slick manual gearbox: hence the development of a 6-speed transmission, standard on all models bar the auto-only C320 and AMG versions. Unfortunately, it's not much better than the clonky old unit - and is just as difficult to use smoothly in up-hill getaways, thanks to the awkward floor-mounted footbrake.

and so on....

Why is it none of these sources mention this lever you refer to?
Adrian
Jaguar XF 3.0 V6 Diesel S 272bhp Premium Luxury + XFR sports seats & Reversing camera.
November 2005 to August 2013: E91 320d SE (Touring).
agh
BMW Warlord
Site Supporter

User avatar

Posts: 11328
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 12:10:45 UTC
BMW Members Cars: Jaguar XF 3.0 V6 Diesel S Premium Luxury
Ford S-Max 2.0 163bhp Diesel Titanium
Location: Hampshire
United Kingdom (uk)

Postby Ally999 » Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:02:33 UTC

agh! wrote:
Ally999 wrote:
agh! wrote:The Merc is almost impossible to hill start without auto. due to the insane foot brake for a parking brake. How are you supposed to use your left foot for disengaging the parking brake and control the clutch at the same time?
I don't know how you do it, apparently it's possible but no fun at all.



Obviously you have never driven a merc with a foot parking brake or you would be aware that it is possible to do a hill start in a manual the pedal is there to apply the parking brake and a lever on the dash to release the brake, so why would you need to have an automatic??????????????? :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:


I'm not referring to the latest model with hill start assist.
True I've not driven one, but I have watched someone else do it.
And in an ariticle about the latest C Class
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=282 wrote:But perhaps the most welcome standard feature of the new C-Class is the introduction of a footbrake that stays ‘live’ for a few seconds and which means an end to the tricky ‘pas de deux’ on the pedals when moving off from rest on a hill.
The foot-operated parking brake introduced by Mercedes to all models some years ago is fine when allied to automatic transmission - but for manual gearbox cars it can be a nerve-racking experience trying to match the clutch and accelerator with the release of a dead-feeling handbrake when parked on a slope, particularly at a busy junction.

http://www.new-car-reviews.co.uk/Mercedes/Mercedes_C_Class_Review.html wrote:The foot operated parking brake also takes some getting used to, particularly cars with a manual gearbox

http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews/car-and-driving/mercedes-c-class-2002142.html wrote:A car of this kind - especially one that rides and grips as well as this Mercedes -should have a slick manual gearbox: hence the development of a 6-speed transmission, standard on all models bar the auto-only C320 and AMG versions. Unfortunately, it's not much better than the clonky old unit - and is just as difficult to use smoothly in up-hill getaways, thanks to the awkward floor-mounted footbrake.

and so on....

Why is it none of these sources mention this lever you refer to?




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v618/ ... rapr03.jpg
Ally999
Advanced

User avatar

Posts: 787
Joined: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 08:08:38 UTC
Location: Glasgow

Postby rich320d » Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:06:04 UTC

At the end of the day, drive both cars, a paper comparison can only tell you so much.

We are all different and want different things from cars, so a long test drive in both is a must.

The new C class receives good road test reports, but try it, likewise the E90 3 series, check the ride on the Run flat tyres isnt too firm for you.
2004 E46 325Ci Coupe, M54, Steptronic, Titanium Silver
rich320d
BMW Warlord

User avatar

Posts: 2926
Joined: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 14:13:32 UTC
BMW Members Cars: 2004 E46 325Ci Coupe M54, Steptronic, Titanium Silver
Now gone:
1999 E36 318Ti Compact M44, Hell Red
2001 E46 320d Touring Manual, Titanium Silver
1996 E36 316i Compact M42, Blue
Location: UK
United Kingdom (uk)

Postby agh » Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:38:00 UTC



Wasn't questioning it's presence, just genuinely wondering why at least one owner and many journalists seem to never know it's there.
Adrian
Jaguar XF 3.0 V6 Diesel S 272bhp Premium Luxury + XFR sports seats & Reversing camera.
November 2005 to August 2013: E91 320d SE (Touring).
agh
BMW Warlord
Site Supporter

User avatar

Posts: 11328
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 12:10:45 UTC
BMW Members Cars: Jaguar XF 3.0 V6 Diesel S Premium Luxury
Ford S-Max 2.0 163bhp Diesel Titanium
Location: Hampshire
United Kingdom (uk)

Postby shell320 » Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:35:09 UTC

I know they are not the models in question but I have both an E46 328Ci(manual) and a CLK 320(auto). The E46 wins hands down and I dont think would ever buy another Merc.

BMW:
Better drive (you drive not the car)
More poke (accelerates quicker even with smaller engine)
Better brakes (they actually work in the wet)
Better looks (not a grandad)
Better built (doesnt rust at the drop of a hat)
Comfortable (excellent for long journeys)
Dealerships (they dont damage your car and then ignore it)

Merc:
Comfortable
good in traffic
shell320
User

Posts: 7
Joined: Thu, 24 May 2007 12:58:07 UTC
Location: OXON/SOMT

Postby mgarvey » Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:59:44 UTC

The BMW will always be a better drive, and manual Mercs, though a lot better than they used to be, are still a pain.

The foot brake/hand release does work as I have driven one (albeit an old one with no hill start assist), but it is a bit of a faff and you have to ensure the weight of the car is held on the clutch - basically riding the clutch - then release the lever which is just on-off with no feel at all. I'm convinced Mercedes only persist with this daft system because it means 95% of drivers pay an extra £1500 per car for auto. I'd also bet money that standard factory configurations for Mercs come with automatic gearboxes by default and manuals probably cost them more to make, but maybe that is just me being cynical.

Back to the question, and assuming brand new current model cars:

BMW

Pros: drive, handling, fuel economy, gearbox, useful things like split folding seats and parking sensors are standard
Cons: a bit common, ride on runflat tyres

Mercedes

Pros: ride, classiness, standard bluetooth, drive not far off a BMW these days (though I haven't driven a W204 so this is speculation)
Cons: dumb parking brake, some almost essential stuff not standard, expensive (your £1000 will get you metallic and split/fold rear seats and that is about it), some of the interior plastics are a bit cheap looking
Current - F30 318d Sport 2012
Sold - R56 Mini Cooper D 2010
Sold - E93 325i M-Sport 2007
Sold - E91 320d Touring 2005
Sold - Volvo S40 2.4i SE 2004
Sold - E46 318Ci Coupe 2002
mgarvey
Intermediate

Posts: 254
Joined: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:00:43 UTC
Location: Reading

Postby BenElton » Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:45:30 UTC

Well its no surprise that the BMW will always win in here (a bmw forum).

I have a 2005 E46 320cd Sport and my dad has a 2004 C220 diesel.

They are total different animals in terms of conform, look and drivability.

On paper they have the same power but the Merc has more torque. In reality the BMW is far quicker all round, especially from a rolling start to 70-80 mhp
BenElton
Intermediate

Posts: 154
Joined: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 19:23:15 UTC

Postby agh » Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:49:52 UTC

mgarvey wrote:The BMW will always be a better drive, and manual Mercs, though a lot better than they used to be, are still a pain.

The foot brake/hand release does work as I have driven one (albeit an old one with no hill start assist), but it is a bit of a faff and you have to ensure the weight of the car is held on the clutch - basically riding the clutch - then release the lever which is just on-off with no feel at all. I'm convinced Mercedes only persist with this daft system because it means 95% of drivers pay an extra £1500 per car for auto. I'd also bet money that standard factory configurations for Mercs come with automatic gearboxes by default and manuals probably cost them more to make, but maybe that is just me being cynical.

Back to the question, and assuming brand new current model cars:

BMW

Pros: drive, handling, fuel economy, gearbox, useful things like split folding seats and parking sensors are standard
Cons: a bit common, ride on runflat tyres

Mercedes

Pros: ride, classiness, standard bluetooth, drive not far off a BMW these days (though I haven't driven a W204 so this is speculation)
Cons: dumb parking brake, some almost essential stuff not standard, expensive (your £1000 will get you metallic and split/fold rear seats and that is about it), some of the interior plastics are a bit cheap looking


Was in the Merc showroom looking at the new C recently.
On the new C Class adult passengers in the rear are in for an uncomfortable time. Drivers seat adjusted for me just under 6ft tall, then I sit in the rear behind the driver and find the posh looking leather seat pocket cuts into my knees. I could not travel in this car in the back.
There is no dealer fit or factory fit option for 12V sockets in the rear which are essential to me for childrens DVD players etc. The salesman did say he could have an aftermarket kit fitted. No 12V sock inthe centre armrest, cigarrete lighter is in the usual place. There is one more 12V socket - in the glove box :?
In the end it still shouts "old mans car" at me.
Adrian
Jaguar XF 3.0 V6 Diesel S 272bhp Premium Luxury + XFR sports seats & Reversing camera.
November 2005 to August 2013: E91 320d SE (Touring).
agh
BMW Warlord
Site Supporter

User avatar

Posts: 11328
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 12:10:45 UTC
BMW Members Cars: Jaguar XF 3.0 V6 Diesel S Premium Luxury
Ford S-Max 2.0 163bhp Diesel Titanium
Location: Hampshire
United Kingdom (uk)

Postby mgarvey » Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:52:20 UTC

The glovebox 12V socket is for iPod power as the aux-in socket is located there - a much worse place than the BMW since if you don't have a 6FL equivalent allowing you to change tracks from the steering wheel you cannot safely reach the iPod itself (relatively easy to do in the BMW).

I tend to agree that the C-Class isn't really designed with families in mind. Having no split-fold rear seats on a £25k or more car is just criminal in my view.

Having said all that, I quite like the C-Class these days. Maybe it is me getting older, or a backlash against runflats, but I'm starting to value ride comfort more than sportiness these days (so long as it doesn't drive like a barge).

Mercs have come some way in this regard. Years ago my boss had a 1995 E-Class coupe as a courtesy car whilst her E36 325i was in for repairs. I remember driving it for the first time. You would turn the wheel and then get a real shock as the car just didn't respond. I was sitting there thinking 'turn, turn, turn dammit!'.

At least the latest cars strike a better balance between comfort and handling, and by all accounts the W204 is the best yet especially in Sport trim.
Current - F30 318d Sport 2012
Sold - R56 Mini Cooper D 2010
Sold - E93 325i M-Sport 2007
Sold - E91 320d Touring 2005
Sold - Volvo S40 2.4i SE 2004
Sold - E46 318Ci Coupe 2002
mgarvey
Intermediate

Posts: 254
Joined: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:00:43 UTC
Location: Reading

Postby Peter » Thu, 24 Jan 2008 13:04:50 UTC

mgarvey wrote:Having said all that, I quite like the C-Class these days. Maybe it is me getting older, or a backlash against runflats, but I'm starting to value ride comfort more than sportiness these days (so long as it doesn't drive like a barge).


Same here, on my list to take seriously next time around... age... backlash against runflats... ride comfort... something in the air I reckon. :wink:

Peter
Peter
BMW Warlord
Site Supporter

User avatar

Posts: 16611
Images: 0
Joined: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 08:26:55 UTC
Location: Highland

Postby iainoflichfield » Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:38:27 UTC

I replaced a Dec 54 plate 47,000 mile W203 C220 cdi Avantgarde auto with the "sports pack" with an E95 320d SE.

Mercedes is slower, noisier and returns 36 mpg on the 225/245 tyres. Also the cross drilled ventelated front discs have consistently produced "bump thump" on the overrun at ~22 mph aftre 15,000 mile tyre wear but it never actually let me down. The sports seats are also difficult to get adjusted to a comfortable position. Roadholding good but handling average. Quality no where near earlier M-Bs.

The Sep 57 plate E92 320d SE is MUCH quieter, faster and returns 43 mpg with 235/255 tyres. Sports seats are superb but the steering is very light. handling good, roadholding above average. Turbo charger seals have given way after 7,000 miles of CAREFUL driving and the "upgrade kits" are on back order from Germany so it's currently off the road.

You pay your money you take your choice ............ if you want ultimate reliability it's not found in German manufacturing any more. Models change too quickly and they are trying to build too many whilst being more aggressive with the workers terms and conditions :!:
iainoflichfield
Newbie

Posts: 2
Joined: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:02:19 UTC

Postby 325coupefan » Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:09:43 UTC

Auto box on My C class 270CDi failed after 45k miles. Full MBSH - would they contribute - No. Many other smaller (but expensive) issues too.

I've had several Mercs and several Beemers. Beemers all better by miles.
325coupefan
Intermediate

User avatar

Posts: 137
Joined: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 21:57:28 UTC
Location: West of Scotland

Postby Peter » Fri, 01 Feb 2008 17:03:04 UTC

iainoflichfield wrote:I replaced a Dec 54 plate 47,000 mile W203 C220 cdi Avantgarde auto with the "sports pack" with an E92 320d SE.

Turbo charger seals have given way after 7,000 miles of CAREFUL driving and the "upgrade kits" are on back order from Germany so it's currently off the road.

You pay your money you take your choice ............ if you want ultimate reliability it's not found in German manufacturing any more. Models change too quickly and they are trying to build too many whilst being more aggressive with the workers terms and conditions :!:


Turbo charger seals have given way after 7,000 miles of CAREFUL driving and the "upgrade kits" are on back order from Germany so it's currently off the road.

Any more information?

Peter
Peter
BMW Warlord
Site Supporter

User avatar

Posts: 16611
Images: 0
Joined: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 08:26:55 UTC
Location: Highland


  • Forum Topics on BMWLand that may be of intetest to you
    Replies
    Views
    Last Forum post

Return to BMW 3 series Forum

BMWLand: Who is online

Users browsing this BMW forum: Esposito and 34 guests