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Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

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Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

Postby hargsnz » Tue, 24 Sep 2013 05:09:55 UTC

I recently purchased a second-hand 2008 E92 - 25,000mls - which I'm very happy with. I just took it into the local BMW agent for its first service since purchase & mentioned that I was noticing a hesitation when accelerating.

I just picked it up & there was a substantial cost for:

'' found exhaust particle filter blocked, carried out burn off procedure & road tested ''

In my research, I can only find reference to these for Diesel powered cars. Mine is petrol.
Do these even have a particle filter?
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Re: Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

Postby Olli » Tue, 24 Sep 2013 06:34:06 UTC

As far as I know particle filters are only on Diesels, as they are meant to collect the soot and burn it off with pretty much no residue in cycles.

So a particle filter on a petrol BMW would be new to me.
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Re: Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

Postby slim_boy_fat » Tue, 24 Sep 2013 07:12:36 UTC

No need for a particulate filter on a petrol.
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Re: Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

Postby Singvogel » Tue, 24 Sep 2013 07:24:16 UTC

Welcome to BMWLand :lol:

Shum mishteak shoorlee.

Why on earth would a petrol engine need a diesel particulate filter?

They have some explaining to do here I think.

Do come back with the answers they give you.
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Re: Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

Postby GunRunner » Tue, 24 Sep 2013 10:10:15 UTC

Singvogel wrote:Welcome to BMWLand :lol:

Shum mishteak shoorlee.

Why on earth would a petrol engine need a diesel particulate filter?

They have some explaining to do here I think.

Do come back with the answers they give you.


Bob. It is not a diesel particulate filter as we know it. Have a read of this that I found last week... Not that it applies in this case but still worth reading. Note the year 2017.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesand ... ischof.pdf
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Re: Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

Postby Gorbash12346 » Tue, 24 Sep 2013 17:18:36 UTC

it's not for diesel particulates it's a NOx cat which slowly gets clogged with sulphur if you don't do long enough/high speed enough journeys every so often to clear it out so effectively the same kind of issues as a dpf would cause.

it all came about because to run lean burn (fuel efficient etc) it runs higher exhaust gas temperatures and thus creates more oxides of Nitrogen (causes acid rain etc) so they had to come up with a way of preventing this.

hope this helps
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Re: Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

Postby Singvogel » Tue, 24 Sep 2013 17:26:18 UTC

So if this is a problem for low daily mileage/short trip usage then does it mean that neither petrol nor diesel is any good for folks who do a short commute.

This does not seem to be common knowledge. :(

They's better buy a bicycle then. :wink:
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Re: Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

Postby GunRunner » Tue, 24 Sep 2013 17:44:18 UTC

Singvogel wrote:
They's better buy a bicycle then. :wink:


[:D] That will suite the Dutch then.
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Re: Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

Postby 21qazxsw » Wed, 25 Sep 2013 08:35:50 UTC

Never heard of this before. Is this in all petrol cars? If so, how come it's not general knowledge? I must admit that my knowledge of cars and how they work is minimal, but even so...

The OP's car is a 2008 E92, so this is not something new... ... ...
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Re: Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

Postby Peter » Wed, 25 Sep 2013 10:18:44 UTC

Not sure what is really being 'serviced' in the OP's car. Perhaps it needed an "Italian tune up" to get rid of an emissions issue. ????

Not come across anything other than the catalytic converter(s) in the BMW petrol engines. Latest petrol DI engines like the N20 and the N55 in my car have a close coupled three way converter with a two ceramic cores, the first stage between the oxygen sensors. The N26 (N20) engine as used in the US has an additional uncontrolled catalytic converter down stream, but no reference to a particulate filter.

This is BMW's comment on the N55 engine.

BMW wrote: Note: Due to the high efficiency of the “near engine” three way catalytic converter, no additional catalytic converters are necessary.


If older petrol engine designs have any additional emission control I'm surprised. Nothing in any of my BMW data, unless I've missed it completely.

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Re: Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

Postby beeswax » Wed, 25 Sep 2013 15:24:05 UTC

Singvogel wrote:So if this is a problem for low daily mileage/short trip usage then does it mean that neither petrol nor diesel is any good for folks who do a short commute.

This does not seem to be common knowledge. :(

They's better buy a bicycle then. :wink:


I was very disappointed with my ex E39 525i failing the MOT on emissions which proved to be one heck of a job to get it sorted and with only 36K on the miles as well and so if this is the case I wonder if buying and running a diesel over that ten year period would have proved worse?

DPF or Catalytic Converter?

Take your pick. But one thing seems certain imv is that its not going to be as easy keeping these cars for long periods as they used to as both the engine management systems and the MOT requirements are getting more complicated and strict respectively. I would not be keeping any car more than 5 years now. No matter what mileage or condition mt car was in. ie get the best value while you can for your car etc.

I wonder if the OP is talking about the emissions fuel evaporator filter cannister? That used to be under the rear wheel arch on the E39?
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Re: Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

Postby GunRunner » Wed, 25 Sep 2013 19:18:23 UTC

beeswax wrote:I wonder if the OP is talking about the emissions fuel evaporator filter cannister? That used to be under the rear wheel arch on the E39?

Nope....He clearly states...
hargsnz wrote:I recently purchased a second-hand 2008 E92 - 25,000mls - which I'm very happy with.
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Re: Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

Postby beeswax » Wed, 25 Sep 2013 19:32:30 UTC

Yes I know GR it was a different car to my E39 but don't BMW have a habit of having similar components on different cars? ;)
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Re: Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

Postby GunRunner » Thu, 26 Sep 2013 08:47:32 UTC

beeswax wrote:Yes I know GR it was a different car to my E39 but don't BMW have a habit of having similar components on different cars? ;)


I think because of the difference in years of cars, that the OP is talking about a catalytic converter. I did not think that an E39 had such a piece of technology. Wasn't the E39 in production long before governments/car industries were looking at implementing such things in cars as a normal piece of technology? Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Here is youtube video for a N54 engine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgOldfRmfYM

I do know that the N54 engine is fitted to a 5 series E60, so a high probability that fitted to many others. The catalytic converter is fitted just after the exhaust gases exit from the engine.
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Re: Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

Postby GunRunner » Thu, 26 Sep 2013 09:00:48 UTC

beeswax wrote:Yes I know GR it was a different car to my E39 but don't BMW have a habit of having similar components on different cars? ;)


I think because of the difference in years of cars, that the OP is talking about a catalytic converter. I did not think that an E39 had such a piece of technology. Wasn't the E39 in production long before governments/car industries were looking at implementing such things in cars as a normal piece of technology?

I could be wrong because...

A fuel evaporator filter cannister might be the same thing with BMW using different wording at that time!

Here is youtube video for a N54 engine with a failed catalytic converter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgOldfRmfYM

I do know that the N54 engine is fitted to a 5 series E60, so a high probability that fitted to many others. The catalytic converter is fitted just after the exhaust gases exit from the engine.
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Re: Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

Postby beeswax » Thu, 26 Sep 2013 09:33:16 UTC

Hi GR,

My 2002 E39 had an M54 Engine and definitely had a Cat Converter and think they all did when they commenced production around 1996. CC have been around before that as well.

Cheers

Mike

PS

During my investigations into my failed MOT, the CC was pretty high on my list.
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Re: Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

Postby GunRunner » Thu, 26 Sep 2013 09:40:58 UTC

beeswax wrote:Hi GR,

My 2002 E39 had an M54 Engine and definitely had a Cat Converter and think they all did when they commenced production around 1996. CC have been around before that as well.

Cheers

Mike

PS

During my investigations into my failed MOT, the CC was pretty high on my list.


Good information Mike. So all this fuss about diesel dpfs being a problem can also apply to a petrol engine.
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Re: Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

Postby beeswax » Thu, 26 Sep 2013 09:44:45 UTC

I even got prices and looked at videos to see if I could change both CC on my engine. There is one fitted to each exhaust manifold 1-3 cylinders and and 4-6.

Darn expensive things. But realised it wasn't that easy to get at without putting the car on a ramp. Buying an OEM and getting it fitted could be getting close to the value of my car. And glad it wasn't that at the end but the MAF sensor. Three garages including BMW couldn't solve it but I managed to..BMW had it for two hours and said they needed more time. No thanks at 100 quid an hour. Its why I said keeping these cars roadworthy and passing the MOT is not like the old days.
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Re: Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

Postby Peter » Thu, 26 Sep 2013 15:21:15 UTC

GunRunner wrote:Good information Mike. So all this fuss about diesel dpfs being a problem can also apply to a petrol engine.


Not sure petrol engine catalytic converters are giving anything like (or ever have) the same issues as DPFs. Back in the early days there were a few issues due to quality and some misuse, but since there's over 20 years of experience, failures are not high compared to what we are seeing with DPFs across the marques.

Diesel engines also have catalytic converters, a Diesel Oxidation Catalyst (DOC), have had them for years, it is the addition of the DPF that causes all the back pressure and/or exhaust blockages.

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Re: Does petrol E92 have a particle filter?

Postby GunRunner » Thu, 26 Sep 2013 16:06:03 UTC

Peter wrote:
GunRunner wrote:Good information Mike. So all this fuss about diesel dpfs being a problem can also apply to a petrol engine.


Not sure petrol engine catalytic converters are giving anything like (or ever have) the same issues as DPFs. Back in the early days there were a few issues due to quality and some misuse, but since there's over 20 years of experience, failures are not high compared to what we are seeing with DPFs across the marques.

Diesel engines also have catalytic converters, a Diesel Oxidation Catalyst (DOC), have had them for years, it is the addition of the DPF that causes all the back pressure and/or exhaust blockages.

Peter


OK. I understand! That is why the new version (6th) of the car now has a DPF directly after the turbo instead of further on down. Hopefully this is to eliminate this blocking by doing a passive regeneration once the DPF sensors sense a problem and then send the appropriate information to the management system. This photo shows it on the left (with the sensors sticking out) with the exhaust gases passing through it after exiting the turbo on the right.

As you may know the new 3 series diesels have an oil temperature gauge and this shows that the engine comes up to temperature very quickly and giving me between 50 and 60 mpg within a few miles.

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