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335d remap and dealers

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335d remap and dealers

Postby exiled » Thu, 06 Oct 2011 01:57:06 UTC

Hi there, Ive had my 335d coupe for 4 1/2 months now & think its awesome. :D
After my mate wiped the smile off my face with his mapped 330d (awesome torque but thats another story [:D]), i now think its time to get mine done.
Couple of Qs for you.

1, Been checking out Simon at emaps & Will at p-torque. The figures there talking about are (emaps 350bhp 516lb, p-torque 340bhp 500lb)
Are these figures safe as i dont want to start having gearbox or clutch problems ect.
2, As i get my car serviced at the dealership, would they see the map or stick something over the top of it rendering useless, under normal servicing :(

Thanks folks
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Re: 335d remap and dealers

Postby neilt » Thu, 06 Oct 2011 08:05:34 UTC

Another one to try is Ecotune, they do a kit that also replaces the DPF, plus a gadget so you can return the car to standard while its in the dealers, them swap it back to mapped after. They quote 350bhp too.
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Re: 335d remap and dealers

Postby s60r » Thu, 06 Oct 2011 09:15:08 UTC

exiled wrote:Hi there, Ive had my 335d coupe for 4 1/2 months now & think its awesome. :D
After my mate wiped the smile off my face with his mapped 330d (awesome torque but thats another story [:D]), i now think its time to get mine done.
Couple of Qs for you.

1, Been checking out Simon at emaps & Will at p-torque. The figures there talking about are (emaps 350bhp 516lb, p-torque 340bhp 500lb)
Are these figures safe as i dont want to start having gearbox or clutch problems ect.
2, As i get my car serviced at the dealership, would they see the map or stick something over the top of it rendering useless, under normal servicing :(

Thanks folks


hi,

these figures are safe and there are many cars running them out there. your zf gear box is rated at 700nm which is what simon maps to. you don't have a clutch. the ratings will only touch these figures for seconds during road driving. regular track driving will be different but that will kill many parts on any car standard or tuned.

the dealership question is huge. they rarely "see" a remap, but there are loads of rumours around that they are getting better at trying to find them. if your car is out of warranty it will not be an issue for them anyway. if they do re-flash your ecu returning you to stock then a quick call to your mapper and you will find they will put it back on for a nominal fee. (around £50) if memory serves.

simon would be my recommendation.

good luck
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Re: 335d remap and dealers

Postby sarjoo » Thu, 06 Oct 2011 10:52:41 UTC

exiled wrote:After my mate wiped the smile off my face with his mapped 330d


Details please...am curious to know how much it improved his 30d...and whether the improvement on the 35d/35i is just as good if not better, thereby returning the pecking order to how it should be :)

In some ways I find it unfortunate that u can take a smaller engine, map it and be as quick if not quicker than the next engine up in its stock form. So that means either we all need to remap or none of us in order for ours cars to remain in the normal/intended performance slots! Still is pretty impressive stuff, as this mapping malarky :)

Would be nice to see a real world head2head comparison of:
a stock 30 to a stock 35
a mapped 30 to a stock 35
a mapped 30 and mapped 35
Is there such a resource on the web for this? Hmm
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Re: 335d remap and dealers

Postby 535dBoy » Thu, 06 Oct 2011 12:04:43 UTC

Mine is remapped and was found by dealer when in for routine work

If you still have warranty think twice

Also make sure you tell insurers
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Re: 335d remap and dealers

Postby neilt » Thu, 06 Oct 2011 12:13:55 UTC

What did the dealer say to you, or do?
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Re: 335d remap and dealers

Postby s60r » Thu, 06 Oct 2011 12:14:53 UTC

there is a great article by bmw car magazine that ran 335i vs 335d both stock and tuned. (its what made me buy the 335d before i ended up with my 335i).

well worth a read but never seen the 30 vs 35?
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Re: 335d remap and dealers

Postby neilt » Thu, 06 Oct 2011 12:18:24 UTC

I once saw an article in one of the BMw mags about a 530d Manual and a 535d, both remapped. I think the conclusion was that the 535d was still the quicker car, but the manual box on the 530d made it feel quicker and more fun.
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Re: 335d remap and dealers

Postby 535dBoy » Thu, 06 Oct 2011 12:22:00 UTC

neilt wrote:What did the dealer say to you, or do?



The next time I went in the job card had "tuned car" written on it.

It was on their systems in red over the computer screens
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Re: 335d remap and dealers

Postby sarjoo » Thu, 06 Oct 2011 13:52:46 UTC

s60r wrote:there is a great article by bmw car magazine that ran 335i vs 335d both stock and tuned.

Tried to find it but no luck, do you have a link dude?
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Re: 335d remap and dealers

Postby Olli » Thu, 06 Oct 2011 16:31:46 UTC

at the moment with the very recent cars, they seem to get a flag up when something has been changed. Although it doesn't yet exactly tell them what it is, it does not go un-noted anymore and they make a mark of it. That was the status of a few month back, when that system was new-ish. Guess they are even further now.

With that connected drive, they even can run a remote diagnostic check before getting to your breakdown location.

Nobody can give you a guarantee it won't be found out, so decision is totally down to you
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Re: 335d remap and dealers

Postby 535dBoy » Thu, 06 Oct 2011 17:30:45 UTC

Mine is a 2008
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Re: 335d remap and dealers

Postby siraff » Thu, 06 Oct 2011 18:47:44 UTC

sarjoo wrote:
exiled wrote:After my mate wiped the smile off my face with his mapped 330d


Details please...am curious to know how much it improved his 30d...and whether the improvement on the 35d/35i is just as good if not better, thereby returning the pecking order to how it should be :)

In some ways I find it unfortunate that u can take a smaller engine, map it and be as quick if not quicker than the next engine up in its stock form. So that means either we all need to remap or none of us in order for ours cars to remain in the normal/intended performance slots!

You do know the 335d is basically a twin turbo and slightly uprated version of the 330d engine anyway? It's still a 3.0l. As with most things there's more to it than brute power - better response, better spread of power, all the other usual stuff. Oh and it's not like the little brother is jumping the big brother anyway - once it's mapped it becomes a modified car which comes with all the extra stress that having one means. Extra insurance, more wear and tear on the drivetrain, no warranty cover, extra maintenance, etc. Sounds great when someone says "I can give your car XXX power for just a few hundred quid" but there are a lot of other factors in the mix which is why BMW don't do it from the factory.
As far as outright power goes the *35 will always be able to make more on a stock engine because it's 2nd turbo is larger - along with injectors and all the other bits. I would think it would be relatively eays to bolt a big turbo and supporting mods to the *30 but you would have huge lag and a car more suited to dyno runs than driving.
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Re: 335d remap and dealers

Postby exiled » Thu, 06 Oct 2011 21:02:12 UTC

sarjoo wrote:
exiled wrote:After my mate wiped the smile off my face with his mapped 330d


Details please...am curious to know how much it improved his 30d...and whether the improvement on the 35d/35i is just as good if not better, thereby returning the pecking order to how it should be :)


Sarjoo i was so very impressed with his mapped 30d thats why i went out and bought the 35d. Its an absolute animal, was just slightly pulling in front of me but his t/c was going on n off like a christmas tree

I have seen the map chart it was 275bhp but i cant for the life of me remember the torque. but ill get a copy off him. when ive had mine mapped ill put both maps up to view
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Re: 335d remap and dealers

Postby sarjoo » Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:20:19 UTC

Exiled, if it raised his BHP to 275, is that not roughly what your car outputs as stock anyway? The difference must therefore have been the torque giving him the jump on you? If u do remap yours it'll prolly wipe the smile of his face ;-)
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Re: 335d remap and dealers

Postby sarjoo » Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:24:46 UTC

siraff wrote: Sounds great when someone says "I can give your car XXX power for just a few hundred quid" but there are a lot of other factors in the mix which is why BMW don't do it from the factory.


I thought that the 35i (and probably the 35d too) were slightly de-tuned out of the factory for 2 reasons:
1. so as not to encroach upon the M3 market.
2. to enhance reliability, as manufacturers cant bank on owners keeping proper service schedules or using good oil/fuel, so a detune helps longevity in this way.

So IF a de-tune is the case out of the factory then it doesn't seem surprising that u can re-tune one to bring it back to its actual normal performance level without impacting on components, which should have been the way it came out of the factory, some would argue?
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Re: 335d remap and dealers

Postby neilt » Fri, 07 Oct 2011 10:08:04 UTC

Thats true sarjoo, and its also down to fuel grades. In the US for example they use a lot lower octane rating, and so the mapping has to be able to take lower grade fuels in other countries.
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Re: 335d remap and dealers

Postby siraff » Fri, 07 Oct 2011 12:44:52 UTC

sarjoo wrote:
siraff wrote: Sounds great when someone says "I can give your car XXX power for just a few hundred quid" but there are a lot of other factors in the mix which is why BMW don't do it from the factory.


I thought that the 35i (and probably the 35d too) were slightly de-tuned out of the factory for 2 reasons:
1. so as not to encroach upon the M3 market.
2. to enhance reliability, as manufacturers cant bank on owners keeping proper service schedules or using good oil/fuel, so a detune helps longevity in this way.

So IF a de-tune is the case out of the factory then it doesn't seem surprising that u can re-tune one to bring it back to its actual normal performance level without impacting on components, which should have been the way it came out of the factory, some would argue?

True to a great extent but there's more to it. Things like the clutch, diff, wheel bearings, etc all have a life expectancy. If you start getting into big torque numbers these parts start to fail or wear a lot sooner. The guy selling pens out of the boot isn't going to be impressed when a bearing fails at 30k miles instead of double that. It's also why a lot of the newer torque monster engines are only availabe with an auto 'box - so the torque can be electronically reigned in to save damaging components. The maker has to design the car to cope with any driving style in any conditions anywhere it may be driven. That means fuel may be terrible, roads my have severe surface changes (which diffs don't like), the driver may be a jockey with a loaded boot and a huge trailer on, etc.
Imagine a worst case where the car is fully loaded with it's max limits (or over them in some cases) on weight, worst fuel, poor driving and terrible roads going up and down huge hills mile after mile. From cold. With a hot shut down's all the time. A remapped car isn't going to stand that for long but a standard one has to. Most re-mapped cars will get more regular oil changes and be looked after better than normal. They're also less likely to get hammered from cold or thrashed then turned straight off.
I'm not saying a remapped car will be unreliable - just that it will be higher maintenence if you use the extra power available.
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Re: 335d remap and dealers

Postby neilt » Fri, 07 Oct 2011 13:02:04 UTC

I agree with siraff to an extent, but modern engines (diesels in particular) are engineers with a huge amout of 'over engineering'.

Look at it another way, if you put a huge turbo on a 318d, remapped it and it was chcking out 220bhp thats not going to wear the wheel bearings any more than a standard 330d with 245bhp (in fact less so, as the engine is lighter). Same with a 335d.... surely the bearings are the same as used in an M3?? Certainly a 535d shares its parts with a 550i, so they have to be able to take it. The 3.0 twin turbo now gives 302bhp in the 535d, and theres also a 740d version with even more... its still the same basic engine.

I had a SEAT Leon TDi 110 about 10 years ago. It was rolling road tested at 154bhp and 235lb/ft, and was too eagar to spin its wheels in 2nd or 3rd in the wet. The torque was more than 210lbs/ft that VW rate their 5 speed box at. I did 92k miles in that car over 3 years, drove it hard, towed trailers, and only had one issue (which was a common TDi issue at the time), the MAf needed replacing at 80k miles, which SEAT paid 50% of. Granted I kept it serviced aver 10k without fail.

Most of my cars have been remapped, and driven hard and I have never experienced issues that I would put down to a remap. I'm not saying it wouldnt happen, but then again I am strict with servicing, I try to avoid roads with speed bumps, I use good quality fuels and never bump up curbs when parking.....
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Re: 335d remap and dealers

Postby siraff » Fri, 07 Oct 2011 15:00:02 UTC

neilt wrote:I agree with siraff to an extent, but modern engines (diesels in particular) are engineers with a huge amout of 'over engineering'.

Look at it another way, if you put a huge turbo on a 318d, remapped it and it was chcking out 220bhp thats not going to wear the wheel bearings any more than a standard 330d with 245bhp (in fact less so, as the engine is lighter). Same with a 335d.... surely the bearings are the same as used in an M3?? Certainly a 535d shares its parts with a 550i, so they have to be able to take it. The 3.0 twin turbo now gives 302bhp in the 535d, and theres also a 740d version with even more... its still the same basic engine.

I had a SEAT Leon TDi 110 about 10 years ago. It was rolling road tested at 154bhp and 235lb/ft, and was too eagar to spin its wheels in 2nd or 3rd in the wet. The torque was more than 210lbs/ft that VW rate their 5 speed box at. I did 92k miles in that car over 3 years, drove it hard, towed trailers, and only had one issue (which was a common TDi issue at the time), the MAf needed replacing at 80k miles, which SEAT paid 50% of. Granted I kept it serviced aver 10k without fail.

Most of my cars have been remapped, and driven hard and I have never experienced issues that I would put down to a remap. I'm not saying it wouldnt happen, but then again I am strict with servicing, I try to avoid roads with speed bumps, I use good quality fuels and never bump up curbs when parking.....

Fair comments but a 318d is very far from a 335d in the bits it uses and that again is different in many ways to an M3. The M could in theory run lighter components than a mapped diesel as it makes less torque and weighs less (this actually has an impact on the power limit of a gearbox).
Gearboxes are one of the largest sticking points - and the reason most mappers won't go over certain torque figures - but the other components are designed to meet or slightly exceed the standard engine's power only by a certain margin or for a certain time. If they happen to take it further then great but then you lose the repeatability and longevity.
I think you were very lucky running that seat for that long because there are quite a few known weak points - not least the gearbox - but again it comes down to weight. In the alhambra/sharan/whatever they go much more often than in the smaller cars. Also people's idea of driving hard can differ from what is actually hard on the car. Giving it the beans through the gears now and then won't bother it anywhere near as much as loading it up to it's weight limit and towing the heaviest thing allowed up a big hill. It also won't be anywhere near as bad as letting the oil get old or 1st to 3rd gear burnouts. This is what I mean by the manufacturers having to leave a decent margin. You're not going to reasonably do it to your own car but there will always be some numpty that will - then they wonder why it's broken.
A remap won't take it past these limits but it will usually run them very close so when someone does something silly with it it's over it's design limits. Again this could go on for a long time or it could go bump after the first time.
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